So does anyone else find the term 'artificial feeding' in relation to the use of formula milk a bit irritating?

[bangandthedirtisgone]

Or is it just me?

I wonder how many new mothers have been pushed over the edge into postnatal depression due to feeling guilty about not being able to breastfeed.

I think it is total 'insert rude word here' to say that ANYONE can BF, I could not. I was in a very similar situ to Portofino, 72hours after my waters broke I was not in labour (but terrified about my poor baby in no fluid!) induced v fast, 3 epidurals that did not work, full transitional pain for almost 12 hours due to them not turning down the centosin (sp?) even though I was not dialating at all and then an emergency c-section, lost 4 units of blood, clotted, PPH, back to surgery for a few hours, crashed, visit from the crash team and finally back to see my baby for the first time some 7 hours after she had been born.

Soooooo, did they help me try to feed her? Did they hell, they shoved her onto my boob and said 'anyone can do it' and left me there in a crumpled mess with a screaming child. Days and fecking days of trying and she could not latch on and the trauma of the whole thing made my milk rather reluctant shall we say. (Breathe)

I spent the next 12 weeks expressing 6 times a day in an attempt to stop myself feeling such a failure. I already had not been able to give birth naturally and now I could not even BF my own baby. At the end of 12 weeks I was going ever so slightly loopy and a very nice MW finally suggested I stopped expressing and bond with my baby. Cue 'artificial feeding' and narrowly miss PND.

Hmmmm. Sorry to rant, and I thought I was so over it now she is 2.5!

I clearly have nothing else interesting or relavent to add to the thread do I?

I bid you all farewell

Portofino, you misunderstand me - I'm not upset your DD was ff, but I am angry that, through the lack of skill of ill-informed health professionals, you didn't have a decent birth/post-birth experience - you talk about "surviving" it, not enjoying it. And that's worth getting angry about, I think.

I'm really not patronising you - it's a bigger issue than your own personal experience I'm angry about, after all. Sorry if I made you feel that way.

Yeah but when I say survive - I mean still being alive! As opposed to something to endure. I know my birth experience was not great, but strangely it wasn't BAD either -it was just what happened, and at the other end I had my beautiful girl. I could spend all my life worrying about what might have been or i could just get on with it.

It IS a bigger issue to ensure that new mums have access to the right help and support. I FULLY agree with that. But it is not right to say that THIS is the way it SHOULD be done, be that waterbirths/co-sleeping/bf etc etc.

www.women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/families/article6718276.ece

Quite an interesting article I read a while ago.

My 1st link so I'll be mighty surprised if it works.

hunker Im really with you in caring about making bf easier for everyone and think it would be amazing if everyone had access to a good supportive bf counsellor. I think its terrible if people dont breastfeed out of ignorance or lack of support. I am even with you in feeling for other mothers and babies who arent your own. However, not being able to bf as I and others have said can actually be really traumatic and cause all kinds of misery at a fragile and very important time in a baby and mothers life. The effects of maternal depression can also have long term effects on a childs life. In some ways the kind f support you want for mothers may help with these problems if fewer mthers feel unable and inadequate. But terms such as artificial feeding are insensitive and can make people feel worse. IMO all the responses on this thread that just say it is an accurate description shows the lack of awareness or regard for how this may make mothers who are already feeling bad feel. And frankly I think there should be ways to support bf without adding uncaringly to the sadness of those of us who havent managed.

Blimey not bad for a 1st attempt.

I do think it's OK to expect something more than still being alive at the end of your birth - and there are a great many very dedicated people who are working very hard to help this happen, ime.

I completely agree that there shouldn't be the "this is the way it should be done" thing - although, having said that, there ARE health implications with various of the different options (I don't say "choices", because so often things aren't a choice, they're made a necessity through circumstances beyond anybody's control), so I do think they should be explored, antenatally where possible, to give women time to consider things and put support in place if necessary.

sometimes, just having your baby alive at the end of labour is more important

ra29, I haven't said I agree with the term artifical feeding and I have and would never use it to mothers in RL because I know how much it can upset people. I do completely agree with sensitive use of language surrounding these emotive issues - I don't always get it right, but I do always TRY to get it right.

2shoes, of course it is. But "you're both alive, now bugger off" shouldn't really be what we aspire to for maternity care, should it?

Artificial feeding sounds like a very sanctimonious term meant to make anyone who can't bf feel like a complete failure and awful mother.

Perhaps they would prefer mothers who can't bf to give their children barley water like the Scientologist spout!

hunker I wasnt saying you were being insensitive more that I agree with your passion in supporting bf but that the responses oon this thread show that people are insensitive to how this can feel. Im glad that you dont use this term and frankly cant see why anybody would use it if they know that it is upsetting.

hunker, no of course it shouldn't! Trouble is there isn't the time! And it will only get worse. These things are what "family" and "community" used to help with. We shouldn't need a medical professional to help us bf. It is not a "medical" issue. I know someone here who works as a BF adviser. She has her work cut out for her.

Portofino, I agree that everyone should have access to the right support however, bf is not the answer to everything. My baby has not gained weight for 4 weeks - am I right to stop bf'ing? Answer is yes - he needs to gain weight otherwise he will get sick. No brainer to me.

If a baby won't take a boob they need something else. It might be "better" to bf but at the end of the day it is a balancing act between the mental health of the mother and the baby's weight.

I have no problem with it being called artificial nutrition so long as it does what it is meant to do.

Has anyone on here actually been upset by it?

As someone who failed to bf and had pnd (and failure to bf played a big part in the depression) it was the health warning on the side of the carton that got to me.

MilaMae - Thanks for the link, the article made interesting reading. It is unlikely that the majority of posters here would understand the effect of 'confounding'. As Kramer said, people don't like complexity.

Hang on - I only ever ff! Bf was not the answer for me. I demand the right to not feel guilty about it as it was the best thing for MY baby! Brett, do they have health warnings on formula now?

Yes, there is a box where it helpfully tells you that breast is best.

Probably it's ignored/not noticed by anyone unless they have pnd and already feel like a complete failure.

Fortunately have never heard of the phrase in RL, only online.

Of course it is horrible and IMO used to be quite negative and often judgemental too. The term has no postive connatations linked to it whatsoever, so I imagine anyone who choses to use it is probably being pretty negative.

It is an alternative methd of feeding a baby. Yes, ideally breast milk is best for baby, but sometimes this is not possible. So, formula provides a perfectly legitimate alternative.

"artifical feeding" Talk about kicking someone when they are probably just doing the best theyc an for them and their baby!

"I struggle to understand why bf mothers get so emotional about other people's choices"

Maybe because they see this as a health issue where a mother's choices sometimes have serious implications for her child's welfare, rather than as a lifestyle issue which is primarily about parenting styles.

MilaMae - that article has been discussed ad nauseum on mumsnet and its arguments picked apart. Just for starters, one of the main experts (Kramer) named in it has very publically denounced the way he has been misquoted and misinterpreted in the press in relation to this issue.

Really - it's quite sad that so many people want to jump on this one article and the particular publication it discusses, as some sort of 'proof' that the stance of the WHO, the AAP, and the NHS have somehow got it totally wrong on breastfeeding.

sabire, are you saying then that you are concerned about MY child's health? My lovely, big, healthy, happy child! And therefore I am an ignorant peasant that doesn't know any better than to ff my only child? IS that what you are saying?

Sorry - that sounds over the top! I am enraged though! I explained already on this thread why I didn't/couldn't bf - then you get the "child's welfare" like I couldn't give a shit. sabire, honestly - women need SUPPORT not judgement.