So does anyone else find the term 'artificial feeding' in relation to the use of formula milk a bit irritating?

[bangandthedirtisgone]

Or is it just me?

"Why are breastfeeding rates so low?

Choice"

If you are 17, come from a family where the previous 4 generations have all bottle-fed their babies, live in an area with bf rates as low as 17%, and have never seen a baby being breastfed, realistically how much 'choice' do you have as to how you're going to feed your baby?

Or if you give birth at a hospital where bf support is catastrophically bad, and are then visited at home by midwives who don't have a clue what they're doing?

Seriously - there is no such thing as 'free choice' when it comes to bf/ff in the UK. Most women who bf in this country manage it by luck or sheer bloody-mindedness.

Draughts - wanted to acknowledge your post. It must be so hard when you have a baby who is unable to breastfeed, especially when you've been able to bf a previous baby.

Even when a cleft palate is not visible, surely someone with real expertise in breastfeeding would consider it as a possibility for a baby who was really struggling to latch despite all other interventions? I know my friend who is a lactation consultant examines babies' mouths very carefully and is always picking up tongue ties and palate abnormalities which are missed by the paediatricians in hospital.

sabire Fri 18-Sep-09 10:32:44 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster

"Cory - in the uk you are still 'counted' as breastfeeding in the stats if the baby is having only one breastfeed a day (I'm thinking of the biggest survey - the DOH Infant Feeding Survey, which is done every 5 years)."

I accept that. Think I was just asked "are you bf'ing", but that would have been in a different context.

Am thinking more of those friends of mine who gave up bf'ing after they had had one bad day and given bottles. They just seemed to believe that they were forever compromised as breastfeeders, so they might as well give up anyway. And certainly none of the British HVs ever told me that mixed feeding might be an option, so we sort of concluded that if you did give in, you'd probably had it as a bf'er. The only reason I had the confidence to continue bf'ing my ds after he had needed top-ups with formula (him= hypotonic, me=too ill to express) was that my Swedish mum told me not to be an idiot.

Quote: ""Why are breastfeeding rates so low?

Choice"

Seriously - there is no such thing as 'free choice' when it comes to bf/ff in the UK. Most women who bf in this country manage it by luck or sheer bloody-mindedness".

All pregnant women are met with Midwives during their pregnancy and breastfeeding is discussed at these appointments. Breastfeeding advice is rampant and is high on hospital agendas. We are not a third world country where people go through pregnancy without medical advice or attention. Women choose to breast feed or bottle feed. Either way - the important factor is a happy and healthy baby and a happy and healthy mother. An unhappy mother struggling to feed an unhappy baby because people tell them to do otherwise is wrong and makes no one happy. And calling it artificial feeding is hardly going to make a new mum feel good about herself. Where is the compassion?

Sabire, maybe your right, perhaps it could have been noticed, however it wasn't, and tbf to the medics that looked after him, and there were many as he was very ill with (oh the irony) respiratory illnesses it was not spotted untill we got his chromosome abnormality diagnosis. I just think that there are some palate insufficiencies (sp) that are not easily seen. Indeed he had his tonsills out when he was two, I would have thought it should have been spotted then.

I do agree about needing the extra support though, I have a friend who was sent home from hospital two days after her c-section having had nobody check that her baby was latching on correctly. She wasn't and if it wasn't for her having researched about b/feeding helplines prior to the birth I have no doubt she would have stopped and switched to formula.

I suppose I could be angry about the fact that the midwives failed to spot my dd's condition- but considering that it took 7 years for the doctors to find a diagnosis and another 4 before I met anyone who knew enough about the condition to understand that it would have affected breastfeeding- well, there's only so much you can lay on midwives, really.

I had loads of support. But it was all support aimed at keeping me breastfeeding. And with hindsight, I wonder if that was really in dd's best interests.

"All pregnant women are met with Midwives during their pregnancy and breastfeeding is discussed at these appointments".

No - this is simply not the case. Feeding should be discussed in depth but it often isn't. And if it is discussed then the person handing out the information (a midwife or maternity support worker) is quite likely to have had very limited education, training and experience with breastfeeding.

In any case, how would a ten minute discussion balance out against decades of cultural conditioning and the entrenched social unease with breastfeeding that you find in areas with low breastfeeding rates?

"Breastfeeding advice is rampant and is high on hospital agendas."

Breastfeeding promotion is high on hospital agendas. Unfortunately a lot of practice on labour and postnatal wards is positively hostile to successful establishment of breastfeeding, and where this is happening bf promotion is adding insult to injury.

"We are not a third world country where people go through pregnancy without medical advice or attention."

No - but actually a lot of the contact women have with health professionals in the UK actually undermines their efforts to breastfeed instead of supporting them. Women in cultures where breastfeeding is the social norm are much more likely to succeed with breastfeeding than we are, even though they might have had very little contact with health professionals and poor antenatal and postnatal care.

"Either way - the important factor is a happy and healthy baby and a happy and healthy mother. An unhappy mother struggling to feed an unhappy baby because people tell them to do otherwise is wrong and makes no one happy."

This misses the point. The rationale for breastfeeding promotion is that breastfeeding is more likely to result in a healthy mother and healthy baby than ff. Many women struggle with breastfeeding, but that doesn't mean that they or their babies would invariably be better off ff.

The important thing is for women to be able to feed their babies as they wish. And while we've got a situation where most women are having to stop bf before they intended to, and where there are very strong social barriers to choosing breastfeeding for certain sectors of the population (the young and the poor), then we can't be said to be offering women free choice, or supporting them in their choices.

bf takes time & the mum needs to be with her baby or milk pump. This needs to be explained to parents. There is alot of detachment in the 'accepted' parenting style - baby seats, pushchairs, cots, babys always put in down on mats.

imho if mums carried their babys around with them then it would be easier to bf on demand. The sitting down to bf idea is one I've not followed since having other children.

I think it's a bit naive to say "choice". I know of only one person who chose to formula feed (and incidentally regrets that decision now but that's by the by).
Every other woman I know who formula fed did so because their "choice", which was to breastfeed, was sabotaged/undermined one way or another.

That's a good point mybox. I find it really easy to breastfeed while I am out as I use a sling. If I felt that breastfeeding would keep me more tied to the house, it may well have put me off.

I ebf and thought it would go on for a year or more, especially as I never had painful latches, cracked nipples or any other problems, but my milk dried up overnight at 5 months for no apparant reason. I was grateful that artificial milk exists as even though it is not as good as breast milk, it is a good substitute and my baby would have starved without it. I have no problem with the term artificial feeding, and have never felt judged whilst ff. Funnily enough though I got more complaints and funny looks from people when I was bf

Bf was never discussed with me but I assumed that this is what I would do. I never gave it much thought but figured I might need a breast pump at some point. I had NO help or support either in the hospital or from the hv afterwards. The only person who even tried to help was my sister (who successfully bf her 3 boys). Nothing happened at all apart from dd and I getting distressed. There just aren't enough staff on maternity wards to do this and hv wasn't really interested other than that we were both well.

There is nowhere near enough support for breastfeeding in hospitals. My son was in ICU and heavily sedated for 10 days, I was encouraged to express milk for him which I did, but that was were the support began and end. I had problems getting him to latch and I was given 15 minutes every 4 hours to try before they fed him via tube. I spent 3 days trying for 3-4 feeds a day and the baby had no interest due to being sedated.
Never once did anyone try to show me how to feed or mention a breastfeeding counciller. I just got 'It's a learned skilled, not everyone can do it' and 'If you give him a bottle he would be able to go home with you in 2 days time/tommorow/this evening/now.' I persevered with it because of information I had found out (due to places like this forum information from HCP's is dire, just the 'breast is best' mantra). If I had doubted myself in any way, or been tempted enough to think 'sod it' and give him a bottle because I was so very desperate to take him home I wouldn't be breastfeeding now.

I dont agree for one minute that we have anything other than free choice. If a mum, or pregnant women, really wants to bf, but is an area with poor support, surely she would make an effort to find that support if she really wants and needs it? After all the breast is best message is everywhere, you dont need a mw to spell that bit out for you. I recieved great help in establishing bf when I had my kids (over an 8 yr period) the support in the hospital was fantastic and consistent and readily available, as was the help and assistance from mw's and hv's visiting my home. But no amount of support will convince a mum who doesnt want to bf, to bf, simple as that. Out of my three living children, one was bf, the other two were not (despite the great help I recieved) My first and last babies could not be bf. For the first and last ones I did not produce breastmilk. My first birth was premmie and though she was poorly at birth, she managed very well on formula, and my last was an emergency c section and again I did not produce milk at all. We tried to bf, baby latched on very well, but nothing came out. There was nothing wrong with me, I just didnt produce milk. I wasnt worried though as its not the end of the world that she had formula, at least she didnt starve (which she surely would have done as I couldnt give her any milk!) Both are developing into wonderful, intelligent, healthy children, neither of them ever had any illnesses or tummy bugs of any kind as babies. Then there was ds. He was bf until 4 and a half months old. I would have carried on but he developed meningitis and so with him not feeding at all, my supply ran out. He is now 6, and has behavioral problems, learning difficulties and hearing problems, and is very small and underweight for his age and constantly gets infections of one kind or another. Had he been ff, I am sure all of this would have been blamed on him being ff. Really, its the luck of the draw, and he wasnt all that lucky! My ff babies are by far more clever and healthier than my little bf boy! I dont 'blame' his problems on him being bf, but it certainly didnt help any of it in the way I was lead to believe it would. I dont think method of feeding makes any difference.

No one has the right to judge a mother for her feeding choices, however you sugar coat it, that is what so many people on here seem to think they have the right to do.

Hmm, hard one.
It certainly is artificial in comparison to breastfeeding, of course it is - not saying it's terrible, but giving formula is not the natural and normal action of a mammal.

But perhaps it would be more accurate to call it 'non-breastmilk' - that keeps it's title in the appropriate relationship to the ideal infant milk, which is breastmilk.

sorry, 'its' (for all the pedants )

Also, when regarding the whole act of breastfeeding - giving expressed breastmilk in a bottle could also be seen as artificial. I've done this plenty of times through necessity of situation, and I would agree it's artificial and not my ideal choice.