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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to expect the staff in my son's reception class to help him pull his trousers up!!

150 replies

BrieVanDerKamp · 07/09/2009 18:31

My son has been going to school for 3 days, he is only just 4.

He has come out of school everyday with a wedgy and his boxers rolled over and over so it's all waistband and no pants IYSWIM.

Of course this is uncomfortable and it leaves an indented red ring around his waist.

Today his trousers were almost on sideways with his fly open.

You'd think they would help him, he also has a problem with one of his wrists (which they're aware of), the two bones in his forearm are fused together which allows no movement of his wrist, obviously this is a factor in him being able to do certain things.

Now his school won't help with the wiping of bottoms (I can kind of understand that) nor will they apply suncream etc.......but you'd think they could help him pull his bloody pants and trousers up FFS, bearing in mind that the new parents were assured that whilst they are new in school the kids would be supervised in the toilet!!

I will mention it tomorrow at school, but wondered if anyone else thought it was a bit off.

OP posts:

mmrsceptic · 08/09/2009 15:40

oh, well i don't know many people with that attitude, I think most people on this thread think they should be helped to do it themselves which is the middle way I suppose

EyeballsintheSky · 08/09/2009 15:52

Agreed, no one is saying that staff should storm in and do everything for the children, but helping them to do it themselves would be the best way. I don't know anyone is rl with that attitude either but I've seen it on here.

mmrsceptic · 08/09/2009 16:15

it's not on this thread I don't think

I haven't sensed that, it would be odd

HecatesTwopenceworth · 08/09/2009 16:39

seeker - challenge accepted. I had to write a letter to my sons' infant school (not where we are now, where we used to live) giving permission for them to be held. I was told in no uncertain terms that without that - they would not be able to do so.

So there you go. No friend of a friend. Straight from the horse's mouth!

BoffinMum · 08/09/2009 16:45

Haven't read whole thread, as expressing bm whilst typing! If he has a wrist condition they are legally obliged to help him under the terms of the Disability Discrimination Act. This can include toileting and dressing.

seeker · 08/09/2009 16:49

Hecate - where did they say the ruling came from?

BoffinMum · 08/09/2009 16:50

I have personally witnessed Reception teachers recoil from the friendly, affectionate hugs of four year olds behaving as nature intended.

These teachers are in the wrong job IMO.

BoffinMum · 08/09/2009 16:52

I can tell you for a fact there is no law prohibiting personal care or cuddling of young schoolchildren, only local 'guidelines'.

HecatesTwopenceworth · 08/09/2009 16:59

They did not say where it came from, just that they were "not allowed". they didn't quote any legislation or guidelines or anything, a simple "we are not allowed".

My kids both have autism. At times they require manhandling holding . I also mentioned how ds2 was very emotional and needed lots of cuddles and reassurance and that is when they said that they weren't allowed to do that.

I was like and I said "what if I write a letter giving permission" and they said fine.

So I did.

I haven't had to write a letter to the present school, but they avoid hugging when possible. They comfort an upset child but they don't fling their arms round them! I have had a conversation with one of the TAs where she was saying it's not really encouraged.

seeker · 08/09/2009 17:00

Did you question them? Someone at the school had obviously got the wrong end of the stick!

HecatesTwopenceworth · 08/09/2009 17:04

No. I didn't think anything of it. Well, I mean, I thought bloody ridiculous, in my day..etc etc.. but it didn't occur to me to make them justify themselves. (I had quite a bit of fighting going on in other areas...statement, salt...)

They said they couldn't, I wanted them to, I wrote a letter, they did it. End of problem.

sayithowitis · 08/09/2009 17:43

I think it depends on your LEA whether you are 'allowed' to hold/touch children in a school. Ours is very much against it. They have issued a whole list of do's and son'ts regarding this. One of the programmes I run for the kids I work with, requires me to touch them in order to instruct them. I HAVE to get written permission frommparents to be allowed to do that. Whilst i do not 'recoil' from a cuddle with a young infant child ( or any others) I do always try to make sure that there is another adult present and if there isn't, I do keep the contact to a minimum. Because I am actually a 'huggy' person!

Morloth · 08/09/2009 17:45

To be fair BoffinMum I frequently recoiled from my 4 year old. I knew where he had been.

LilMissPerimenopause · 08/09/2009 17:54

Seeker: have also had this happen at my kids school. We had to give written permission to the school.

Bigpants1 · 08/09/2009 18:22

I am in Scotland, and though the Education system is far from perfect here, the dcs do not start school until they are 5,(4.5 if early birthday).This gives them an extra valuable year to emotionally mature a little, and more time to develop self-care skills.
My youngest dd is 3.9yrs, and it is hard to envisage her at 4 being at school for a full day-at the moment, she goes to nursery 2.5hrs every afternoon.
I think 4 is too young to be at school-it seems dc are being forced to mature more quickly all the time. They have their whole lives to learn, but they also need time to mature emotionally and socially-there seems so little time and patience for dc to learn and develop skills at their own pace.
Dont know what the answer is, but just makes me a little sad. Op, YANBU.

Goblinchild · 08/09/2009 18:36

We used to buddy up after PE in Y1, and give each other the once over to check for shoes on the right feet and collars done up, hair tied back, shirts tucked in. Teacher included.

I don't cuddle usually, Y5 tend not to, but a lot of leaning on me by little ones seems to happen on playground duty. And they're quite happy to ask for help in the certainty that it's given.

mmrsceptic · 08/09/2009 18:58

Children don't have to go to school at four in England -- it's five.

But if other education boroughs are like ours, you had to go at four to get a place in school, as they were all taken up by Year One.

So to go to the school round the corner we could walk to, we started at four. I wish we hadn't had to but there it is. I didn't know any better at the time.

hocuspontas · 08/09/2009 20:17

Just out of interest and not trying to start an argument but how many posters on here couldn't wipe their own bottoms in reception?

I started school in 1961 when I was 4 and would have run screaming from school had any adult attempted to help me! I did my own without thinking. And assume my own children did. The children in my reception class last year didn't ever ask for help and this new intake seem to manage ok as well, even the ones who are only 4.5. I suppose I can only base my opinions on my own experience.

Going back to the op's ds. If we were aware of his problem we would obviously help to make him comfortable but at the same time hope that he would wear clothing that enabled him to maximise his independence. Was he bothered though Brie? Or was it just you?

GreensleevesFlouncedLikeAKnob · 08/09/2009 20:21

what on earth does it matter who here could and couldn't do bottom-wiping/self-care at 4?

the issue is that some children can't do it all reliably yet, and they need help to do it and be comfortable and clean.

and if a 4yo child needs help at school, they should get it.

mmrsceptic · 09/09/2009 02:34

I think you are furiously agreeing

you both think children should be taught basic self care skills by this age and if they still can't do it at school they should be helped

but one of you is saying the "should be able to" part and one of you is saying the "should be helped" part so it looks like you disagree

Phoenix4725 · 09/09/2009 06:15

Im currently helping in my Ds class and even though have a full crb check ,its true were not ment to help dc with items of personal clothing that even includes ones that known me for long time .

Luckily for me my ds has statement and it specifs help in toileting and dressing but as parent myself hate seeing others struggle.Mind if a couple of them fell over lol ther ebe no stopping me hugging them infact think their parents be more upset if did not help

madamearcati · 09/09/2009 10:33

My poor 4 yo DD pooed her pants at school yesterday because she had to wait for th toilet as there was a queue and then when she did get in.She hadn't time to get her tights down quick enough.
i am very glad that she felt confident enough to approach the TA to help clean her up and the TA didn't shy away from doing so.

madamearcati · 09/09/2009 10:46

i don't think its so much a case of 'rules' more a case of the need for staff to protect themselves fro false accusations
i know of a teacher who was accused of something terrible (beating a child about the head with a book)and it was only the luckiest chance that a TA happened to have witnessed the incident and could explain what had really happened.
She is now extremely cautious of any physical contact with children.

madamearcati · 09/09/2009 10:49

Goblin - at our school we used to have a system like that ,where the Y1s helped the R children with getting changed but had to stop it because several parents and children complained about it !

BoffinMum · 09/09/2009 15:48

LOL Morloth!

Well as a teacher I always hugged kids when it seemed appropriate, and I would do the same now if I worked in a school. So shoot me.

What a sorry state of affairs, when adults think they need a bit of paper to show compassion to a small child.

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