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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to expect the staff in my son's reception class to help him pull his trousers up!!

150 replies

BrieVanDerKamp · 07/09/2009 18:31

My son has been going to school for 3 days, he is only just 4.

He has come out of school everyday with a wedgy and his boxers rolled over and over so it's all waistband and no pants IYSWIM.

Of course this is uncomfortable and it leaves an indented red ring around his waist.

Today his trousers were almost on sideways with his fly open.

You'd think they would help him, he also has a problem with one of his wrists (which they're aware of), the two bones in his forearm are fused together which allows no movement of his wrist, obviously this is a factor in him being able to do certain things.

Now his school won't help with the wiping of bottoms (I can kind of understand that) nor will they apply suncream etc.......but you'd think they could help him pull his bloody pants and trousers up FFS, bearing in mind that the new parents were assured that whilst they are new in school the kids would be supervised in the toilet!!

I will mention it tomorrow at school, but wondered if anyone else thought it was a bit off.

OP posts:

mmrsceptic · 07/09/2009 19:02

anyway, i'm really sorry for your ds, it's tough starting school so young, and I hope he gets help this week

hayes · 07/09/2009 19:02

How about changing from boxer shorts to briefs, do you think this would help? It sounds like he is pulling his pants and trousers down at the same time, then when he pulls them up they are all twisted.

I have worked in a school and have helped children in this predicament but sometimes in a class of 30 its not easy to spot every problem, especially if he had gone to the toilet just before bell time.

Speak to the school tomorrow about your concerns.

Jujubean77 · 07/09/2009 19:02

I am a TA and always help make the children comfortable when I can - I think it is vital to their wellbeing at school - uniforms can be so uncomfortable.

I will tell them as I am adjusting what I am doing and to make sure they pull their pants up to educate them etc. but would never ever leave a child with bunched up pants/clothes.

GreensleevesFlouncedLikeAKnob · 07/09/2009 19:03

Of course the staff should have noticed the state he was in and sorted him out. They are in loco parentis with very young children who are new to school ffs. It IS their job to care for the children as well as teach them - the two cannot be separated when you are dealing with a four-year-old. They are responsible for his basic well-being while he is there. They may not like dealing with toiletting issues, but they are a fact of life with this age group, and if the staff don't want to provide adequate care they should teach a different age group.

Have a word with the teacher/TA tomorrow.

Jujubean77 · 07/09/2009 19:04

As long as the adjusting is done is the classroom with Teachers present and not in the cloakrooms or anything it is fine in my school.

Original poster

BrieVanDerKamp · 07/09/2009 19:06

Ahhh thank you to the last few people, it is nice to think that it's shame on him,I was beginning to think everyone on here thought a 4 year old should be able to do this and more otherwise they're an ""invalid"" (just rude)

OP posts:

ThingOne · 07/09/2009 19:06

YANBU because of his wrist problem but you can help him by putting him in pants that are easier to pull up and in shorts/trousers without a fly. Most of the boys at my son's school have elasticated waists.

In general, four is not too young to be able to do it himself.
For children without any physical difficulties being able to go to the loo alone and dress/undress themself are just about the only things they need to be able to do before they go to school.

When I took my DS1 into nursery on his first day at 3.9, I suddenly realised it hadn't crossed my mind to teach him how to do go to the loo by himself. I was apologetic but he learned quickly. I taught my DS2 early!

Will your DS ever be able to learn? If so, I'd start teaching him now. But obviously speak to the TA and the teacher to make sure they have registered that he needs help.

noodlesoup · 07/09/2009 19:06

these have 'mock' fly up to age 6 my ds has these and he still fits in his age 4 ones (just). He is an averge height 5.5 year old

southeastastra · 07/09/2009 19:08

i do hate all this 'four year olds should be able to..' stuff.

children learn how to do things at a really wide range of ages.

we expect them to go to school at 4 yet don't seem to make allowances for them.

Original poster

BrieVanDerKamp · 07/09/2009 19:10

tbh it's not really the fly that's the issue, and obviously he know's how to pull his trouser up, he IS pulling his trousers up, so he doesn't have to learn, he just lacks the movement in his wrist to be able to pull them round to the position they should be in, he just pulls them up and that's it

OP posts:

RumourOfAHurricane · 07/09/2009 19:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

GreensleevesFlouncedLikeAKnob · 07/09/2009 19:13

I am always taken aback by this sudden note of militarism and joylessness that creeps into MN threads about children starting school and having hiccups/not coping with certain things yet

four is too young to have expectations of fgs

they are only babies

and it is all new for them, they have never worn uniform before, or been in a big class of thirty, they don't know the teachers, they don't know where everything is yet, there are loads of older noisier kids about

there is SO much for them to get to grips with in such a short time - school lunch, playtime, assembly

there should be more nurture and less briskness in reception classes IMO

Original poster

BrieVanDerKamp · 07/09/2009 19:13

I know he was toilet trained 2 days after his second birthday, walked before he was one, is very intelligent yet the general view on here seems to be that he must be stupid or something. Some kidsin his class who are older than him can't speak properly, but that's OK I suppose?

OP posts:

runnyhabbit · 07/09/2009 19:14

Brie - M&S do adjustable elasticated waist trousers with mock fly for £7 (good quality too)

I would def be having a chat with the school about this, but in the mean time, could you get your ds to complain to the teacher e.g - "my waist hurts miss" then they have to see to him? iyswim?

RumourOfAHurricane · 07/09/2009 19:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

slowreadingprogress · 07/09/2009 19:15

Brie I can only sympathise. My ds has motor skills difficulties and he too started school at barely four. He once came out with every item of his clothes on inside out during reception year. We made the teachers aware of his difficulties but imho they were very 'focussed' on independence skills (totally understandably, of course, and not a bad thing) however some children have needs in this area and need help. I found there was a complete lack of understanding.

and I agree with you brie, 15 seconds to pull a pair of trousers round and make a child comfortable is perfectly do-able for a teacher/ta.

slowreadingprogress · 07/09/2009 19:17

'there should be more nurture and less briskness in reception classes imo'

totally agree with you there Greensleeves

runnyhabbit · 07/09/2009 19:19

My ds1 (4) is going through Salt, and once the teachers were aware (ie I spoke to them everytime I saw them) they were very helpful. Maybe they need a reminder

Nancy66 · 07/09/2009 19:23

Stories like this make me really sad - they're little more than toddlers at 4. I completely understand the reasons why teachers can't help with toileting etc but it still makes me cross.

My little niece (also only just 4) came home absolutely starving from her first day at school because she couldn't open her lunchbox, despite many rehearsals at home, and none of the teaching assistants noticed.

mmrsceptic · 07/09/2009 19:26

whoa whoa I was not implying your ds is stupid

i had a just out of threes start school so I know exactly what it's like

but I think most four year olds should be able to do these basic things and if they can't then teachers should be let known and it should be made as easy for them as poss

mine could read but could barely hang his coat up, lot of use that was -- had been focussing on the wrong things

not suggesting this is you brie but still think you should have realised at least that you might have to ask

they are more than toddlers at four btw

jacyjwc · 07/09/2009 19:28

YANBU - when children are in reception they should be helped with little things like this.

My DS is starting school on weds and is 5 at the end of the month. He would not have been able to wipe bottom and sort himself out properly when he had just turned 4. He can get dressed very well by himself but has been reluctant to do toilet related things alone! I don't know what I would have done if he had been a month older and starting school last year.

They are so little, it's horrible to think of them being uncomfortable all day because of something like this.

(The cheapest trousers from M&S - £3.50 i think, have an elasticated waist).

Podrick · 07/09/2009 19:29

I think he should certainly be getting the help that he needs.

IMO 4 is far too young to be at school partly because of issues with basic personal care!

But if the government insist then they should resource the classroom so that kids get the help they need with dressing themselves etc. so if classes of 30 are unmanageable get more nursery assistants or reduce the class size.

sympathy to you and your ds

TotalChaos · 07/09/2009 19:32

as a parent to an intelligent child who happens to have difficulties in "talking properly" I'm somewhat starting to lose sympathy with you OP.....

seeker · 07/09/2009 19:34

They would at our school. But they do all sorts of things that popular mythology says schools aren't allowed to do - including wiping bottoms, giving cuddles and having conker tournaments!

diddl · 07/09/2009 19:34

Well, TBH, BrieVanDerKamp, I think that a schools responsibility is to teach.

But the trousers you put him in surely don´t have a button and zip as opposed to pull up?

Does his wrist mean that he can´t pull his trousers up, or that it is difficult?

From the teachers POV; I guess they should be able to help with his trousers, but maybe not boxers.

Sadly, school is the start of doing for yourself.

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