...to find it peculiar when white people ask me where I come from 'originally'...

[MrsMerryHenry]

...but haven't got a bleeding clue about their own ethnic origins?

Classic convo:Person: Hi, blah blah blah

Me: Hi, blah blah blah

Person: So where are you from? Originally, I mean?

Me: I'll tell you that if you can tell me first where you come from.

Person: Oh, er...London. (I am not exaggerating here, I have been told this at least twice )

and double-

The best any of them can do is 'England and Scotland' or something like that. Still a double-.

I heard Jamie Oliver on Friday saying that he's recently discovered that his family origins go back to some Sudanese people eons ago. Surely that's an exciting thing to know about oneself, right?

(btw, friend with the 'English' name = his name seemed English to me but long-lost relative recognised it as Jewish with an entirely different pronunciation.)

I think that while people working on collation of statistics etc may need to define people in a specific way, in everyday life the polite response is to accept someone's own view of their ethnicity.

I think that refusal to do that is at the crux of the OP's issue. People are asking where she is from; she tells them and they refuse that answer because she is not defining herself in the way that the other person considers acceptable.

In response, she asks where they are from and then refuses to accept their answer as Scotland or England because they are not defining themselves in the way the OP considers acceptable.

It is all rude, and ultimately pointless. You find out a lot more about what someone is like and how they want to be treated from listening to what they have to say, rather than what you want to hear.

Quint, I was born here and my whole fasmily's lived here since the mid 1950s so a bit different to your friend. There are no relatives 'back home'.
I only object to the 'you're not one of us' implcation from people I've just met (obviously not all of them mean it that way, not consciously at least). If a friend asked it would be different, not intrusive.

Oh, agree with you that someone's description of themselves should suffice, it just seemed to be a very bald statement that that was all their was to 'ethnicity' as a concept. And it's possible that people who press a little farther are being curious, rather than deliberately rude. (I've had this with Irish people when I've told them I'm English or half-Welsh - oh, but you must have some Irish in you...) However, clearly much more likely to offend if someone is from an ethnic minority.

Milly - 'People are asking where she is from; she tells them and they refuse that answer'

I read the OP that people are asking her where she is from originally and she refuses to answer.

'Ethnicity is meant to be self-identified'

So I could just make up what I am?

Abra1d, yes you can just make it up. Or more to the point, if you are asked for your ethnicity on a form, the choice is yours. The organisation collating the information cannot cahnge the information if they disagree with your choice.

Claw, yes you are right.

Haven't read the whole thread, but I did want to add my thoughts on the OP's question:

I came to the UK 17 years ago to go to Uni and am very happy here. However, I still don't feel 'British', don't want to swap my passport for a British one, and will probably want to retire in another country longer term.

So, when people ask me (as I still do have slight accent) where I'm originally from, I LOVE telling them about my origins, my native language etc. I feel proud about it. I also speak to my children in my native language. And I also find it very interesting to hear about other people's origins.

So, rather than being annoyed, I enjoy it when people ask me about my 'origins'!

I guess I don't object to this sort of question because I'm genuinely interested in other people's backgrounds so am glad they want to know the same about me. And we always want to categorise and define people we meet don't we. On the first day at university everyone goes round asking what A levels you did and what course you're on, at parties or other functions people ask you what you do for a living, people in NCT groups ask you whereabouts you live in the area.

The issue about skin colour is intersting though. Thinking about it, I would probably not they were from because I might be perceived as being racist. If they had an accent though, I would, simply from a 'oh that's interesting you're from X country' point of view. Nothing to do with their colour.

I get this all the time.

I live in London and have a broad Manchester accent. My grandparents from my mother's side are from China, but my mum was born here and is also very manc.

When people ask me I have no idea what answer they want. I usually go for the "Manchester" reply, but then sometimes they say "No, where are you REALLY from". I have no idea what answer to give. I have no problem with my friends asking me about my ethnicity, I think it is only natural to be curious and want to know more about your friends, I just find it a bit rude from people I have just met.

Well if i met someone and had the same conversation as the OP. I would find the OP's response more peculiar than the person asking the question. I would find the OP's response very defensive and unfriendly.

Surely the fact that want to talk to her and get to know her, in the first place would suggest that they are not being 'racist'.

Agree with you claw3, if I ask someone where they're from originally (and in London there are loads of nationalities), I'm doing that to show a genuine interest in this person!

I'm always curious to know where ppl's origins are because it's interesting and it's usually said to strike up a conversation. I am Scottish living in England in a culturally diverse area and I have a mixed race son.

I try to word my question carefully to ask about people's family origins are, as I'm aware of the diversity of people around, but I would hate to think that I was offending anyone by being curious about an obvious difference in ones family heritage or background etc. What's the big deal?? I don't see it as racist to be interested in someone who is different to you. I call it being friendly.

i think it is a bit of a daft question. someone who is proud of their 'original' nationality will probably volunteer the information. someone less willing to discuss this won't. best not to ask.

i might add, it isn't easy to trace, as only your maternal line is sure (if that).

i always tick 'information refused'

My maternal line's not sure at all, my mother is adopted and only found out by accident! We'd never have known if she hadn't lost her birth certificate and had to apply for a copy.

And plenty of people researching family history discover skeletons in the cupboard, illegitimate children who were brought up by their grandparents and called their mother their sister kind of thing.

I think people sometimes ask in a perhaps clumsy attempt to look culturally sensitive. But it's so hard to get that kind of tone right, I think it's so easy to fall in to Basil Fawlty territory.

But I think it's appropriate to ask anyone with a very strong accent what other countries they come from or something slightly vague to that effect. I don't think that should be offensive. But I would be very hesitant to ask anyone with a totally UK accent 'where they were from originally', that does sound colonial in tone. I would like to know sometimes and don't know how to ask. There was an British Asian woman in my nct group and I wondered whether she was Muslim or not but found it hard to know how to ask. It feels in sensitive to make assumptions and yet it is helpful sometimes to know what someone's affiliations might be.

I am amazed by the number of people that are STILL using the R word. For the last time, THIS IS NOT ABOUT RACISM!!!

That aside, there are SO many fascinating stories about people's experiences and family histories on this thread, people are so interesting, aren't we?

Also, to those of you who asked - actually it's only white people who ask me this question.

MillyR: "Ethnicity is meant to be self-identified and so it is up to the individual. It can be connected to culture, geographical location, biological characteristics, religion and so on.

It is up to each person to decide what aspects of their life define their ethnicity."

• interesting. I shall give this some thought.

MrsMH why can no one say they are ethnically British?I think they certainly can if many generations can be traced back to the British Isles.I dont like the almost triumphant diminishing of anyone who is cofortably proud of their Britsh heritage.I think that if you can go back 2 or 3 hundred years and all ancestors have been born in Britain then you are ethnically British imho.

comfortably

My mum always asks me this about friends. Bless her, she is a bit, perhaps not racist but definitely racially naive (Years ago she said "look at the darling little piccaninnis" about two very cute little black girls on the Tube etc. Mortified, I was.)

Anyway, when she asks me where people are from, originally, I look blank and say "Cricklewood, I think".

pranma - I'm ethnically english. My ancestors have been here looooooooooooooooooooooooong time. Half of Doreset and Cornwall are stuffed with their graves
But there was a whisper about a spanish sailor washed up in the Armada down in Cornwall
but having produced 2 ginger children there must be viking/normal blood in there too.
It is interesting though. my mum did the family tree back to the 1600's and we discovered one of my dads ancestors was sent to Georgia penal colony for horse stealing in the 1700's, came back and stole another horse and was hung in Launceston town square.

I don't see why it's so odd. Most white people's grandparents came from either England, Ireland, SCotland or Wales P
oland or Italy..

Is it ok to say "where were your grandparents from?" Is that ok?

i ask out of sheer curiosity - but maybe not straight off the bat. It's often a chance to learn more about other countries and cultures, but if someone says their parents are from 'x' but they know little of 'x' i would not push them on it.

wouldn't you rather someone asked than made assumptions? I've often heard people, for example, describe someone as african (generic !?!) when they are in fact from the West Indies etc.

It certainly wouldn't be intended as a racist/"you don't belong here" type question if I asked, just a thirst for knowledge, especially as I have researched my roots and there's no variation anywhere. I'm boring - so I might find you exciting.

How would you recommend someone of an inquisitive nature approached the subject? Or do you not mind how you are asked, but would rather they knew themselves first?

I'm worried about offending people now...