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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

...to find it peculiar when white people ask me where I come from 'originally'...

262 replies

MrsMerryHenry · 06/09/2009 22:40

...but haven't got a bleeding clue about their own ethnic origins?

Classic convo:Person: Hi, blah blah blah

Me: Hi, blah blah blah

Person: So where are you from? Originally, I mean?

Me: I'll tell you that if you can tell me first where you come from.

Person: Oh, er...London. (I am not exaggerating here, I have been told this at least twice )

and double-

The best any of them can do is 'England and Scotland' or something like that. Still a double-.

I heard Jamie Oliver on Friday saying that he's recently discovered that his family origins go back to some Sudanese people eons ago. Surely that's an exciting thing to know about oneself, right?

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsMerryHenry · 06/09/2009 23:53

Good blog, Grimma!

Right-ho, I'm off to bed. Night everyone!

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsMerryHenry · 06/09/2009 23:54

hear hear, mumcentre!

OP posts:
MillyR · 06/09/2009 23:56

I also find the whole Viking/Anglo-Saxon/Ancient British heritage idea to be a strange fixation anyway. The events that have happened in the different parts of Britain in the last 500 years are hugely important to how we all live our lives now. So the fact that someone's ancestor may have taking part in or been displaced by the Highland Clearances, the English enclosures, the Hunger Marches, the Industrial Revolution and so on are of great interest. Wanting to know if they can trace their ancestry back further seems to be a bit superfluous.

The same is true of people who have ended up here because of the Irish Famines, or the Bangladesh famines. What was going on over 1000 years ago is somewhat less relevant to English, Welsh, Scottish, Cornish or any other identity.

It is still a bit personal to ask though!

Jackaroo · 07/09/2009 00:06

My fascination is because I grew up with a house full of "foreign" students.. they would stay with us for 6weeks-3months at a time, and therefore I want to know if I'm right in thinking someone is Kenyan, Finnish etc etc.. it's probably a kind of showing off, esp. when other "white" friends are amazed that I can perceive a difference in origin between black people - ie they are Nigerian (whether themselves or "originally") or Ugandan.

It seems obvious to me, but only because of this experience; and suddenly it's interesting. If you've never bothered to think about it(and many many people haven't), they just see "black", or "chinese", or "white". So not knowing their own heritage isn't a surprise.

We once had a mature white South African guy staying with us (probably late 40's and this was in the late 70's) who was in London on business.. and could not stay longer than 24 hours. He couldn't cope with sharing his space with Iranian, Eritrean, Kenyan and Japanese students. That was when my mum first explained racism to me, and it was the most bizarre thing I'd ever heard.

Oh, and I agree - even if you only look a couple of generations back, it makes no sense to be asking others if you haven't done some looking at your own past. I would think that a bit suss, tbh.

GrimmaTheNome · 07/09/2009 00:07

here's one link on diversity, MrsMerry

Mumcentreplus · 07/09/2009 00:10

Facts are British people are of every hue..white ,black, brown we all experienced the same things..loved the same things,danced and dressed the same (to a degree)..and we are together dependant upon our area..i eat beans on toast, Sunday roast (with rice and peas )..I have friends who are not black..why?..because we got on we love each other..simple..

CyradisTheSeer · 07/09/2009 00:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

MillyR · 07/09/2009 00:16

Perhaps some of the confusion comes from people referring to other people as British. To me, Britain is a political union, it is not my ethnicity. I wouldn't refer to anyone as British unless that was how they described themselves. Many people take offence at being called British. So when they say 'I am from England, or Scotland, or wherever' it is not to do with some genetic claim or ignorance of ancestry, it is simply that someone has referred to them as British.

pooexplosions · 07/09/2009 00:18

How ridiculous to suggest that you need to go back 2ooo years to debate ethnic origins to call yourself english? England wasn't een a country then...if you hae to go back a couple of millennia then nobody is actually from anywhere and the entire discussion is moot.

I can trace my maternal line back 500 years, is that long enough to be allowed to be interested in where someone is from?

And all Celts are German? Where on earth are you getting that from.....?

SlackSally · 07/09/2009 00:27

I get asked this all the time.

I'm actually utterly English as far back as I can trace but somehow have rather dark hair/olivey skin and people usually assume I'm Spanish.

Some people have actually argued with me about it, despite my assurances, in my best Pompey accent, that I've always lived in England.

I'd LOVE to have a more interesting background. I may start just lying.

Mumcentreplus · 07/09/2009 00:29

exactly poo the earth is just land..where you happen to be born....

Mumcentreplus · 07/09/2009 00:31

LOL Slack

SlackSally · 07/09/2009 00:34

I know. I've only been abroad 4 times in my life.

I like to think of myself as a sexy, mysterious senorita.

If only they knew...

SomeGuy · 07/09/2009 02:46

perhaps this is because British identity is very strongly discouraged. My DW (who isn't British, or at least not until she got naturalized a few years ago) said she sang her national anthem every week at school. I don't think we ever did at school in England.

There isn't really a 'white identity' either, but quite a lot of black people are into the 'African roots' thing.

I met an Asian rasta who made a pilgrimage to Jamaica and seemed to believe that he, as a person 'of colour' had a common identity that I as a white person couldn't share, even though Jamaican culture has a great deal more to do with Britain than it does with that of Asia.

People with recent ancestry outside Britain can also claim multiple heritage 'I am Italian British' or similar, which a generic white person with no non-English parents/grandparents can't do.

kickassangel · 07/09/2009 03:00

hmm, there are some people who are british.

my family is british right the way back to before 1066, and appear in the 'doomsday book' as brits back then. so i think i can claim to be VERY english (and we are english, i know that).

however, i married an irishman, and moved to america, so i cocked that up, didn't i? i constantly get asked where i'm from, but that's fairly understandable, as i'm in a non-touristy area of the midwest, where it's perfectly possible that some people have never met a brit before.

mmrsceptic · 07/09/2009 03:57

Gosh, that's a rude question.

I live abroad and am asked all the time, but in modern Britain I think that's a really intrusive question for someone you are just getting to know.

The only thing I don't get is why you don't mind the question but mind the other people not knowing about their own family tree.

That's odd, if I were you I would object to the question full stop. The way you look at it, it looks a bit antsy to me, like you are looking for an argument.

mmrsceptic · 07/09/2009 03:59

Am I out of touch? I think that's an INCREDIBLY rude question. I can't believe people ask that question when they've only just met you.

HecatesTwopenceworth · 07/09/2009 07:34

MrsMH - to answer your Q about where are folks from - I am french, romany & irish and god knows what else. Heinz 57, that's me!

noddyholder · 07/09/2009 07:36

Is it only when white people ask?

NotQuiteCockney · 07/09/2009 07:52

"Where are you from?" is a bit of a direct question, but, imo, could be ok, depending on attitude and context. "Where are you from, originally?" is mindbogglingly rude. The questioner is rejecting the person's answer for where they're from and demanding a different one. They're saying, basically, 'you can't be from X, as you are not white.' Aren't they?

TheDMshouldbeRivened · 07/09/2009 08:05

'But so does everybody's on these islands. ' well true but after several thousand years who knows where their ancestors came from.
I generally say England when asked (and I'm often asked because of the hijab) but having only traced the family back 500 years its possible there's french, spanish and what have you. But I reckon 500 years entitles me to say 'England' and leave it at that.
I also think some people want to know if your England born (regardless of colour/ethnicity) or foreign born because it tells them whether your cultural experiences are the same and same reference points.
I was at a sisters meeting the other day and those of us who are England born (but various ethnicities) were chortling over ra ra skirts from the 80's and Duran Duran but tthose not born here didn't have the faintest idea what we were talking about (and aren't they lucky ) or power cuts at the end of the 70's.
Asking where someone is from allows you to know whether people will get stuff like that.
Mind you, its not something I'd ask in the first 2 mins!

Shoshe · 07/09/2009 08:28

As a Family we tan easily and always wondered where we came from, family rumour was India, via a promiscuous Paternal great grandmother in the Raj.

But when I did our Family tree, we found that paternally, we areof Polish/Spanish Jewish stock, arriving in London in the early 1800's.

Maternally Scots, although most probably Viking from the surnames.

So where did the tanned skin come from?

Maternal greatgrandfather, who was a shipwrecked Portuguese sailor, married greatgrandmotehr and stayed in Scotland.

sabire · 07/09/2009 08:34

Not read whole thread, but OP is quite interesting. DH has has been asked this question (he is English but has African, Indian and French forbears), and my dc's will be asked it many times I suspect. People are interested in ethnicity - they can't help themselves. I wouldn't ask the question myself, but I am also often curious about people's ethnic origins - just out of nosiness. There are so many mixed heritage families around where I live - African/Asian, Japanese/African, White/Caribbean..... sometimes I walk into my dc's playground and it's like walking into a Benetton advert...... I find it fascinating.

Portofino · 07/09/2009 08:38

I too think it is a completely rude question, to assume that your are not British just according to the colour of your skin! But I don't see why you're surprised that everyone can't trace all their ancestors. I've done it - back to 1600, but lots of people just aren't interested.

Fruitbeard · 07/09/2009 08:45

It's a question I often ask (but not in the first 2 minutes of meeting someone!) because I live in London and hardly anyone is originally from here.

I get asked it myself. Most recently by the lovely Sikh guy in the newsagents. He's lately moved here from Germany (DH is half Austrian so we had a nice chat about that too) and apparently I was the first white English person that he'd met in a month of being here!

I didn't have the heart to tell him that actually I'm Irish/Scottish heritage by way of South Africa and Wolverhampton/Liverpool with French blood on the Irish side if you go back as far as 1690 from a French mercenary who came to Ireland to fight in the Battle of the Boyne but stayed and married a local girl....

So you see I do know my heritage, but I wouldn't just start expounding on it in casual conversation.

My answer to 'where are you from originally' is Liverpool, because I was born there.

When people then comment I don't have that accent, I explain my father was from SA - and that's when several people have gone

"Oh, that's what it is" - I've gone , they've said 'well, I knew you were mixed race but I couldn't work out what it was!'

I then have to tell them my dad is white SA, I just happen to have very dark hair/eyes and olive skin, so have SlackSally's problem of being thought Spanish/generic Forrin all the time!