to truly believe that there are too many people making living on benefits a lifestyle choice?

[preparestobeflamed]

While I really do feel for people, who through no fault of their own, find themselves on benefits, struggling to bring up their children on a pittance, am I the only one who truly believes that for a large number of people, living on benefits is a lifestyle choice??

It may just be the people I know, but I have one friend who refuses to work - no children or partner, another friend who from leaving school decided she was going to have children, has had 2 children by unknown fathers so far, and all at the tax payers expense and is now planning her 3rd, to some unsuspecting man she hopes to meet on a night out, and another friend who is due her 4th baby anyday, by a man who pays her no child support whatsoever, even though he is a high earner working full time and who lives in the next town with his mum and dad. She believes he will move in one day, i think not and when he does stay with her, she makes it public knowledge that she is continuing to claim she is an unemployed single parent to continue getting all the benefits, even when he has stayed for months and all those mentioned have the opinion that they are entitled to live off of benefits for as long as they live.

They just feel so entitled it's untrue!!!!

I am beginning to believe that people who do not pay tax should not be entitled to vote, since why should these people who do not contribute a penny to the system, and possibly may never contribute a penny to the system, be able to have a say as to how the money the country generates is spent????

I also am of the belief that anybody who does not have dependents, is not elderly, sick or disabled should not receive any benefit unless it is contribution based benefit.

Am I really BU??

Am I the only one who gets so angry at these lazy people, who live off of their children for as long as they can, and in some cases, are swayed to have children because they do not want to work??

my mum has been a scrounger benefits recipient for 40 years and no plasma screen either.
Clearly we are doing something wrong.

maybe that fellow scrounger that you recently met up with for lunch nicked yours

Brilliant post ElieRM

Thanks tethers.
Oh, and whilst we're on the subject, if you want to improve people's live (which IMVHO is far more important than crapping on about not liking how your taxes are spent) then why not try and boost people's moral, self-esteem and broaden their horizons? What about spending some money on subsidised gyms, art galleries and mueseums so those in poverty can afford to do something that might only be accessible to the middle classes? What about abolishing targets in schools so schools with poor grades do not ahve their funding cut when they fail to meet targets, meaning the children that attend are left with crap resources and fewer teachers? What about creating more apprenticeships and publicising NVQS and NDS in vocational subjects? What about improvong housing? What about giving people a bit more, instead of less, because carrotoften works bettter than stick?

Can scoungers afford lunch? I bet she was smoking and eating pre-cut fruit too. tsk

I bet she was too - bloody shocking isn't it

Oh God...not pre-cut fruit! Formula feeding her baby as well?

Ok, so I might be covering something someone else has said before but here is my tuppence worth:-

I used to think like that about people on benefits and judge people who lived off the state. However, since my life circumstances have changed and for the time being am forced to be a "single parent" on benefits, my viewpoint rapidly changed.

Many people are being tarred with the same brush, what about the people who have been working but made redundant, or those who have disabilities, or children with disabilities, or are left looking after their children?

There is no astounding pot of benefits money that people live on, it must be credit cards, loans etc etc.

I find it incredibly soul destroying to be in this situation and am anxious to get myself out and support my family as soon as I can.

Those people who are deemed of the "lower classes" and live off the state have not been given or educated to know any better standard of life, that there is a whole world out there that they can experience, or that they can find meaningful work and feel good about themselves.

Instead it's just a vicious circle of extremely depressing circumstances of which they cannot get out by themselves.

Some, yes, may be scheming and manipulative of the system, but others are suffering because of the situation they are either born in or find themselves in.

I really feel sorry for people who are in this situation. I see it everyday where i live. Most people, when given the chance to work and support themselves, find it a great character and confidence boost.

So, it's very easy to sit up at the top of the working pile, but when your family situation changes or something happens and you tumble all the way down to the bottom, you realise that it's not all black and white.

And for that, I'm grateful. Out of a truly, truly, crappy situation, I have been given a very small gift - compassion towards others whom before I might well have judged with my rose tinted spectacles.

I didn't see but she had abandoned left her offspring with someone. Very shifty she was.
My offspring on the other hand were probably at an art gallery or something intellectual.

well said ineedalife.

To those who are giving the OP a hard time: do you think our benefits system is just fine? sustainable in the long term? doesn't require any debate to be had whatsoever? Are you aware that social security payments total more than is received by Government in income tax and corporation tax combined? I want to live in a society which helps those who can't work. As does the OP I think. But obviously the system as it is not sustainable financially. Should we not at least have this debate about who should receive benefits? It seems some people are unable to tolerate a debate on the subject.

No, I think we can have a debate. I think that's what the 211 posts are all about.

The fact is, is that when someone with no experience personally of being in that situation judges people, it's ever so slightly annoying........

And, these debates tend to not go down so well on mumsnet . You see some of us might be classed as idealistic, non daily mail readers...........

No our benefits system is not fine, what about those who get trapped in it and can't afford to come off because they would be even worse off?

And that's why we are talking about those who are born into the situation or surrounded by it but not receiving the education to help them out of it, either by family or schooling?

Oh we're all doomed I tell you!

I can't discuss anymore of this without eating some more chocolate. Back soon

Rene- As several other psoters have pointed out, what happens to those who 'shouldn't' be receiving benefits? Do we leave them and their children to starve?

It always reminds me of a tv prog where John Prescott was investigating class.
He asked 2 working class women if they considered themselves working class.
They said no because they had never worked, and I believe didn't intend to, they did very well on the benefit system thankyou

Why does this debate have to be so polarised? Can't people accept that there are those that need (and deserve) benefits, but there are also people who abuse the system. They are the ones I object to.
By the way, I don't read the DM, I am not middle class or well off, and I do have experience of these families. I could go into great detail, but as someone earlier said, client confidentiality and all that.
The benefits system needs a total overhaul. Some people should get more, some less.

I don't think anyone has claimed no-one abuses the system but a, its actually small and b, it can only be fixed through education, opportunities etc
Which I reckon the Govt has decided cost more than supporting abusers to be honest.
I grew up on a sink estate and its not easy getting out and there's little help and shit schools.

i think that's what i was trying to say?

"Many people are being tarred with the same brush, what about the people who have been working but made redundant, or those who have disabilities, or children with disabilities, or are left looking after their children?"

"Some, yes, may be scheming and manipulative of the system, but others are suffering because of the situation they are either born in or find themselves in"

in a roundabout way?

It does need an overhaul, but the people are trapped need helping as well to get out of it?

Can people also not accept there might be reasons why people choose to abuse the system?

I'm with Elie. Unfortunately people who haven't had the vile depressing experience of being on benefits don't understand. In some peoples eyes benefits = scum.

ReneRusso - are you aware that among those welfare benefits are payments made to carers which save the Government/Tax Payers £57billion - that £57,000,000,000 every single year!

twirly - have you ever been one of those people though?

If it is a vile depressing experience then surely we should be looking to cut the number of people trapped in this nightmare, rather than accept the status quo.

Isn't that what they are trying to do with lone parents by changing the income support to JSA when the child turns 7?

Rene, have you been in the situation though?

That saving is surely helping the country remain solvent, but unfortunately the welfare budget is still not affordable long term imo, especially in recession.