to truly believe that there are too many people making living on benefits a lifestyle choice?

[preparestobeflamed]

While I really do feel for people, who through no fault of their own, find themselves on benefits, struggling to bring up their children on a pittance, am I the only one who truly believes that for a large number of people, living on benefits is a lifestyle choice??

It may just be the people I know, but I have one friend who refuses to work - no children or partner, another friend who from leaving school decided she was going to have children, has had 2 children by unknown fathers so far, and all at the tax payers expense and is now planning her 3rd, to some unsuspecting man she hopes to meet on a night out, and another friend who is due her 4th baby anyday, by a man who pays her no child support whatsoever, even though he is a high earner working full time and who lives in the next town with his mum and dad. She believes he will move in one day, i think not and when he does stay with her, she makes it public knowledge that she is continuing to claim she is an unemployed single parent to continue getting all the benefits, even when he has stayed for months and all those mentioned have the opinion that they are entitled to live off of benefits for as long as they live.

They just feel so entitled it's untrue!!!!

I am beginning to believe that people who do not pay tax should not be entitled to vote, since why should these people who do not contribute a penny to the system, and possibly may never contribute a penny to the system, be able to have a say as to how the money the country generates is spent????

I also am of the belief that anybody who does not have dependents, is not elderly, sick or disabled should not receive any benefit unless it is contribution based benefit.

Am I really BU??

Am I the only one who gets so angry at these lazy people, who live off of their children for as long as they can, and in some cases, are swayed to have children because they do not want to work??

I do hope that you are not referring to me in that post, since I do actually have experience of being unemployed, and of having to live off of benefits. This is why, as stated in my OP I do not have a problem with people who, through no fault of their own (and through no deliberate choice) find themselves having to survive on benefits.

It has astounded me tbh how many people have made assumptions about my employment status and my income during the course of this thread.

yes because they're got a fucked up health system and gawd knows what else.

I think that just reaffirms my point twirlymum...

The USA has shocking poverty, and little welfare state to speak of- did you mean to hold them as an example of what we in the UK should be striving for, or have I misread?

so why wasn't he pressured into a job twirly like single parents are?

and you had children at the time of being unemployed, and you came from a deprived background, lived in an area of deprivation as a youngster and had a virtually non-existent education as well did you?

As you seem to have little concept of the "choice" that some people have made - and how it's come to be that they've made that "choice"

YABU We are currently on benefits. DS broke his leg last year and as he has a severe behavioural disability and we had a 2 month old baby DP had to give up his agency job so that we could take him back and forth to school. He still has not found a job as there are so many others out of work. He would love to work as we want to buy our house.

OTOH we know family members and friendas who have never worked and think they should get benefits forever.
It is easy for us to live on benefits as we have children 1 of which is disabled but we still want to work. If benmefits were cut to encourage yuou to work then our kids would suffer

Where have I actually said, or even insinuated that benefit claimants are all scum?

Please tell me, so I can go back and see for myself.

FOR THE RECORD

I do not think all people who are in receipt of benefit are scum. In fact, I believe a number of people in receipt of benefit are entitled to much more than the 'paltry' amount they currently receive.

I have reiterated this over and over again throughout this thread.

I think there are a few people who actually understand exactly what I am getting at, but for the few that do not understand, please read my posts again.

Thank you

well the fact that you have been on benefits yourself and honestl belief that someone could consider it a lifestyle choice speaks volumes.......

Anyhow - I'm off out to watch fast, noisy cars being driven round the town centre with the oldest DS's - may even buy them a treat when we're out with the tax payers money

It is clear that there are a few people getting on the bandwagon, without reading my posts, so I shall summarise here.

I DO NOT THINK THAT ALL BENEFIT RECIPIENTS ARE SCUM.

I DO NOT BEGRUDGE BENEFITS OR SUPPORT TO PEOPLE WHO ARE:

SICK
DISABLED
ELDERLY
CARING FOR SICK/DISABLED/ELDERLY
BRINGING UP YOUNG CHILDREN
CHILDREN
PEOPLE UNEMPLOYED THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, WHO DO WANT TO WORK

I DO NOT AGREE THAT PEOPLE WHO DO NOT WORK, FOR ANY REASON THAN THEY CAN'T BE BOTHERED, AND WHO BELIEVE THEY ARE DEEPLY ENTITLED TO CLAIM BENEFITS FOR THEIR WHOLE LIVES, AND NEVER EVER INTEND TO WORK, WHO MAY HAVE CHILDREN TO CLAIM I/S, WHERE THERE IS NO PRESSURE FROM THE GOVT TO FIND EMPLOYMENT, AND WHO BRING THEIR CHILDREN UP TO BELIEVE THE SAME CORRUPT VALUES, THEREFORE CONTINUING THE CYCLE, AND WHO HAVE CHILDREN FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING HAVING TO GO ONTO JSA, AND THEREFORE AVOIDING THE PRESSURE FROM THE GOVT TO RETURN TO WORK, EVER ARE NOT DESERVING OF THE BENEFITS THAT THEY ARE GETTING.
I WOULD RATHER SEE THE SICK/DISABLED/ELDERLY AND CARERS OF SICK/DISABLED/ELDERLY RECEIVE MORE HELP, THAN SEE IT BEING GIVEN TO THESE PEOPLE.

I WOULD RATHER SEE MORE MONEY BEING USED TO IMPROVE EDUCATION, AND INCREASE THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR CHILDREN TO GROW INTO SELF SUFFICIENT ADULTS WHO DO NOT RELY ON THE STATE AS THEIR ONLY SOURCE OF INCOME THEIR WHOLE LIVES.

I ALSO APPRECIATE THAT THERE ARE MANY MORE PROBLEMS WITH THE STATE WELFARE THAN THOSE I HAVE MENTIONED.

alwayslookingforanswers

Yes, I do believe some people choose to live on benefits instead of going to work, and if you cannot see that, then you are clearly misguided, but what in fact speaks volumes to me, after reading your vehement posts in support wholeheartedly of the people who I was referring to, which in case you are still confused, is the people who do not want to work ever is how you vehemently support them, and then make the point of mentioning that you are on benefit.

If this is because you found yourself with no other way to survive, then you are not one of the people this thread was about.
If you in fact have chosen to live on benefits forever, and have no intention of working ever then it is abundantly clear as to why you have felt the need to be so vehement in your posts.

goes away to wonder how many other people who were so quick to defend parasites are possibly parasites themselves

preparestobeflamed-

It's no good pretending that the posters who disagreed with you simply didn't understand you.

You are on AIBU.

I disagreed with not only the basic premise of your assertion that some people are more deserving than others, but questioned your right to decide who was deserving and who was not. I disagreed with the dubious suggestion that those who don't pay tax shouldn't be entitled to vote.

All of those issues are to be found in the OP

"goes away to wonder how many other people who were so quick to defend parasites are possibly parasites themselves"

I don't think there's much misinterpreting that one to be honest.

I think you illustrated my point about a questionable attitude better than I ever could, thank you.

YANBU.

However, for some of the so-called "workshy", it makes rational sense to remain unempleoyed because, by taking a job at or around the minimum wage level, they might well actually be worse off working than remaining on benefits. Until the government finds some way of remnoving that trap, then I think there will be a sizeable minority of people who will choose to abuse play the system.

Sadly, IMO, the welfare state as it currently stsnds has the effect of trapping generations in poverty.

Michael Portillo (Tory I know, I know) mentioned in his article in last week's Sunday Times that the Welfare State was initially never designed to be a cradle to grave thing but a means to support people who needed it. And at the time it was set up, it was a matter of pride to support your family and there was a stigma about not doing so. Also, originally you paid your National Insurance as exactly that - insurance against hard times. It was only after the war that the insurance part was removed and benefits were made available to all.

I'm certainly not advocating a return to there being that level of "stigma" about being on benefits (though that obviously that still exists as testified here), but surely the solution here is giving people back their PRIDE. (As ElieR I think said, the Thatcher govt destroyed this in many areas)

The whole tax/benefit system needs to be overhauled. It is WRONG that people should be worse off if they work. It's wrong that employers get away with paying such crap wages that only people from outside the UK are willing to do the work. It's imperative that people have an incentive. A fair day's work should enable you to house, feed and clothe your family without having to worry about paying the gas bill. Some kind of sliding scale is needed maybe.

Blaming certain sections of society for all our woes is just a cop out.

alwayslooking your post at 17:44:17
It is a fair point you make, and I know I don't have the answers. But what I am trying to get at is to make it more worthwhile for people to work by retaining a level of support for those on low wages.

i'm not on benefits anymore. I know some families who are still. Everyone has their own story to tell and their own circumstances.
As far as the word scum no you didn't state it explicitly. But there are threads popping up all the time and there are some very prejudiced views floating around.

DEBS75 said: "YABU We are currently on benefits. DS broke his leg last year and as he has a severe behavioural disability and we had a 2 month old baby DP had to give up his agency job so that we could take him back and forth to school. He still has not found a job as there are so many others out of work. He would love to work as we want to buy our house".

I don't understand this I'm sorry (and not trying to pick on you just genuinely interested), but why did your DH have to give up his job? Why couldn't you take DS to school? Or you work and DH take DS to school? Or DH find a job that started after school drop off and ended before school pick up, like the majority of working parents have to? I'm genuinely interested because if our DD broke her leg there's no way either of us would give up our jobs, we wouldn't be able to because we wouldn't be able to pay our bills.

'someone with a 'good' education etc doesn't tend to make those choices'

Actually just off the top of my head I know several people who are graduates of very good universities who have made exactly that choice. Why work when you get benefits for children and perhaps a bit of money from your parents?

I have two friends in their forties who have NEVER worked and brought up families who've never seen working parents. One is and Oxbridge graduate (a DPhil) and the other is an Exeter graduate.

goes away to wonder how many other people who were so quick to defend parasites are possibly parasites themselves

"It's wrong that employers get away with paying such crap wages that only people from outside the UK are willing to do the work."

But why are only poeple from outside the UK willing to do the work? Is it the benefits trap, whereby taking a low-paid job might mean someone actually being worse off in work? Or is it because people from other countries tend to have a different work ethos and take pride in "standing on their own two feet"?

">>goes away to wonder how many other people who were so quick to defend parasites are possibly parasites themselves

'But why are only poeple from outside the UK willing to do the work? '

It is usually because such people come alone and leave their family in their home country.

This means they can work all the hours they can stand up, no childcare woes or taking off work when little Johnny falls ill or school runs.

This also means their cost of living is much cheaper because they basically need a place to crash and prepare food and can live in a flat with a bunch of other flatmates.

THAT is why.

'">>goes away to wonder how many other people who were so quick to defend parasites are possibly parasites themselves

If you think for a second that any immigrant enjoys being exploited guess again. Most do it to send the money home, as much as possible, for the money.

Not for pride in standing on their own two feet.

But because they get paid in pounds.

Or they basically sold their souls to organised crime gangs who trafficed them into teh country and their family could be killed or hurt if they, the immigrant, don't work and do exactly as they are forced to.

Not everyone coming from overseas and working in aminimum-wage-trype job is alone.

Not everyone who claims benefits when thay are physically capable of working has a family to support or any responsibilities other thanthemsleves.

But I apprecaite that these are factors which come into play in some - perhaps many - cases.

I thought that parasites lived in France

Paris-ites

geddit?

good

As you were