to truly believe that there are too many people making living on benefits a lifestyle choice?

[preparestobeflamed]

While I really do feel for people, who through no fault of their own, find themselves on benefits, struggling to bring up their children on a pittance, am I the only one who truly believes that for a large number of people, living on benefits is a lifestyle choice??

It may just be the people I know, but I have one friend who refuses to work - no children or partner, another friend who from leaving school decided she was going to have children, has had 2 children by unknown fathers so far, and all at the tax payers expense and is now planning her 3rd, to some unsuspecting man she hopes to meet on a night out, and another friend who is due her 4th baby anyday, by a man who pays her no child support whatsoever, even though he is a high earner working full time and who lives in the next town with his mum and dad. She believes he will move in one day, i think not and when he does stay with her, she makes it public knowledge that she is continuing to claim she is an unemployed single parent to continue getting all the benefits, even when he has stayed for months and all those mentioned have the opinion that they are entitled to live off of benefits for as long as they live.

They just feel so entitled it's untrue!!!!

I am beginning to believe that people who do not pay tax should not be entitled to vote, since why should these people who do not contribute a penny to the system, and possibly may never contribute a penny to the system, be able to have a say as to how the money the country generates is spent????

I also am of the belief that anybody who does not have dependents, is not elderly, sick or disabled should not receive any benefit unless it is contribution based benefit.

Am I really BU??

Am I the only one who gets so angry at these lazy people, who live off of their children for as long as they can, and in some cases, are swayed to have children because they do not want to work??

and also for those that aren't aware - we are still in a recession - which means that lots of people have lost their jobs many businesses have gone into administration , people losing jobs in their 1000's during a recession does generally lead to an increase in benefits payments and businesses going under does tend to lead to a drop in corporation tax.

I'm sure you'll find that when we eventually get out of the recession and business improves, more jobs are available those 100,000's that have been made unemployed just in the last year will manage to find jobs and start contributing again.

I don't think you can really take welfare payments in the middle of a recession as ones being set in stone and indicative of "normal"

so do we let the people who find themselves in this situation, through lifestyle choice or redundancy, disability, carers allowance etc starve?

What's the alternative? What would you do? And without being rude, have you been in the situation?

I have not been on benefits. I think I am still qualified to comment on the issue though.

sorry that was for rene

I'm not saying you are not, but Im saying when you are in the middle of the "experience" it does give you greater understanding.

I think people need help and support to achieve or get out of the situation they are in.

It is there in some cases, i.e. with lone parents there is some assistance available, but what about for those who maybe missed out in education or need a bit of a firmer shove in that direction?

Do you know what lets kill the bastards off. They're all thick anyway, let them die out and they'll be less tax to pay.

you know what will do it, don't you. Ban all junk food. It'll destroy em. They won't be able to survive on vegetables.

(BTW DISCLAIMER: I am being tongue in cheek and do not mean in anyway the above)

well I'm in a rather unique position of having been

reasonably well off in a country with no welfare state
unemployed in a country with no welfare state

then in this country

I've been

married, "well off" (above average wage anyhow) and renting
married pretty poor and renting (but not on benefits)
married "well off" and a homeowner
married "poor" and a homeowner
single parent on benefits and renting
married on benefits and a homeowner.

(in that order)

Think the only thing I haven't done is the married on benefits and renting .

Trust me - until you've been there you have no real idea what it's actually like.

I am not a politician and don't really have the answers I'm afraid. But I just think the system needs an overhaul and because public finances are in a mess. Since you ask, I think I would start with simplification of the system to make it cheaper to administer, more incentives to work, eg when you get a job, you don't lose all your benefits until you reach a certain income, community based work for the long-term unemployed in return for their benefits. And no I don't include the recently redundant, the sick, disabled and those with young children.

Apparently all the money goes on booze and fags anyway, they don't eat do they??!!!

Blimey always, have you been on jeremy kyle yet?

I can see what you are saying rene, and it sounds positive

oops forgot to finish my last post.

Was going to add that until you're actualy on benefits you have no idea how the "stigma" of being them affects you. I knew it wasn't going to be forever - I've had a decent (working class) upbringing, can manage my finances well, understand and believe in the concept of the short term pain for long term gain in terms of getting back into work.

But my god, once you're on them the stigma, it eats away at you, even if you're the most confident person in the world and biggest optimistic in the world it grinds you down, it really bloody grinds you down.

Im with you always, that's what I mean about soul destroying.........

I used to be a PA, excellent at my job, supported myself, paid my own way, confident, outgoing, bubbly and happy. Now I'm suffering depression and anxiety. Totally crappy.

ReneRusso the not losing benefits until you reach a certain income is crossing over into the issue of being part of the working poor.

Why should those already in poorly paid employment have to struggle by - when those coming off benefits onto the same shit wages/employment get extra?

And it makes it even worse when you go into the Jobcentre and the staff are rude and offhand at you, especially when you are with your little one and it makes you cry and feel like dirt, because of the awful situation you are in, and how you want to be able to pay your mortgage, pay your way and be responsible for yourself, but can't because of the circumstances for the time being.....(But will do one day)

its generally the way the OP starts as if benefit claimers are all scum that does it.

Just because you're capable of working doesn't mean you should just to be a fiver better off. I'm sick of these threads, where prejudiced people with no idea of the struggles of real people come on here to whinge about their fucking taxes. Thankfully those on benefits have more important things to worry about than whether they are offending tax payers or not.

I worked with a family who had ten children, all of whom were neglected and on the at risk register. Both parents had never worked. The dad said it was his right to benefits, he had no intention of ever getting a job ' I can't be arsed'. The mother chain smoked and had loads of gold chains. They asked for a bigger house, so the council knocked two houses into one, and decorated it for them. The older two now have babies, and have demanded flats (which they will probably get, as they also got a maternity grant and prams bought for them by my department).
YES, IT'S A STEREOTYPE but it's all true, and I know and have worked with many other families like it.
I am not having a go at all those who claim benefits,(if you have read my previous posts you will see that) but there is this culture with some families.
I feel so very sorry for the younger children, because the likelihood is that they will do the same. I don't have the answers but I know something has to change.

Being in poverty can go hand in hand with social problems, yes. That's not just due to the laziness of individuals though. I know families like this aswell, am friends with some of them. They have aspirations and dreams which will never be realised.

yes I know people who have in public said "I can't be arsed" - when in reality it's "I'm too bloody frightened of coping" it's easier to say you CBA than it is to say you're scared. and of course there are a very small minority who have that mindset of "can't be arsed" - but it's not just lazyness.

If the answers are so simple - why has no-one yet come up with a solutioin that will work? The "problems" have been evident throughout several different governments (both Tory and Labour) and the solution hasn't been found - that's because it's not black and white and "easy"

Is this the Daily Maily Thread today then?

smallwhitecat-

"And tethersend - you appear to be suggesting that resources are infinite. Now THAT'S ridiculous (especially at the moment)"

And suggesting that the way to get the country out of recession is to claw the money back from the poorest section of society is reasonable I suppose?

If you really believe that the benefit claimants- 'deserving' or otherwise have caused the recession, or are responsible for ending it, then I'm not sure what else to say.

I am pointing out that we are one of the richest countries in the world; why does nobody ask why we have so much poverty, instead of pointing the finger at those who receive benefits and blaming them for all society's economic ills?

Isn't America the richest country in the world? There is terrible poverty in some areas.