To be worried that I will never find love if I admit to being feminist?

[poshsinglemum]

And ashamed to admit that I probably am one? It has a really bad press.
My version of it is to celebrate being a woman and feminity but to love men. It also includes EQUALITy for men and women.

So many women hate feminism or are ashamed of it . Why?

thesecondcoming - I shall take your post as a compliment.

thethersend - no I was being serious and am slightly that you think men cannot be feminists. Put it this way, unless you convert as many men as possible to feminism then 'feminists' are going to be left shouting in the dark. Men have to get on board otherwise 'feminism' will just be an empty campaigning issue that remains stalled. Nice to see some posters on here saying their man is a feminist though.

Fennel - DW absolutely terrifies most men and does assertive with 'A' so yes agree with you there - but she still would run a mile from being called a feminist.

junglist1 - I can't believe that bloke said that to you in the day and age.

Oh right, ABetaDad... sorry, forgot that the purpose of feminism was to 'convert' men. Thanks for putting me right on that one, I was obviously very confused!

Are you sure you're not a comedian?

tethersend - surely the purpose of feminsim is to get women treated fairly, and equally? As you and other 'feminists' say - the reason they do not get treated fairly and equaly is because of men. Is it not men who discrminate against women, is it not men who treat women badly? Logically, feminism therefore has to change men. How else can feminism achieve its goals than by changing men's attitudes? What other purpose can feminism have?

What do you think feminism should be doing? Sounds to me like you just want it to be a sort of talking shop or a sort of 'women's club that excludes men. That is perhaps where I part company with the traditional view of feminism. It has to modernise and address men as well as women to move forward at all.

wouldyou be ashamed to say that your anti racist or anti-homophobe?? of course not.what's the difference??i don't get why you would be ashamed.thats sad.
if men don't like you calling yourself a femisinst -bolocks to 'em go and find a more enlightened soul who you will probably be much happier with.

ABetaDad The tears are rolling down my legs (hairy or otherwise)

There are feminists who advocate seizing power from men through other means than converting them, or talking them round. Many advocate the use of force. Would you tell them that they just want to start a 'women's club that excludes men'?

I believe that converting women is a worth while task- much of the oppression of women is by other women, who are influenced my the male-orientated society in which we live. We are conditioning a whole new generation of young women to believe that their bodies are ugly. It's bizarre.

To be honest, I have no interest in converting you to feminism; nothing personal, I just think that, as a man, you will never understand the need for change, much less the reasons behind it or the methods by which change needs to be achieved. I just find it hilarious that feminists need men's permission in order to achieve their aims (your understanding of which is, at best, limited).

My legs are hairy at the moment. I do shave them for things like weddings, to adhere to societal norms

I mean really, a bit of hair on your legs, minging?

Also interested in abetadad's views. Which seem to imply that without men within the feminist movement, it will never get anywhere. Presumably because women have no power, which is kind of the point. But we have got somewhere - by arguing and debating and raising awareness and making people see that the main thrust of what feminists want is the fair and right thing. We can garner support and get things done without everyone having to "join".

tethersend - ah yes, I wondered how long it would take before the "as a man, you will never understand the need for change" arguement would take to come out. The last redoubt of the campaigning feminist.

Men can never be women so men can never understand the issues women face and so that means the 'fight' is perpetual. A never ending campaign that is self referencing, only speaks to women and men can never be allowed to join. What are you frightened of -that men might actually 'get' what feminism is about and so one day make you and your fight redundant?

I never said you need my permission or any man's permission to want fair and equal treatment. Yet another empty specious arguement to try and set men up as the enemy to validate the cause. Keep shoutng in the dark if you want to but the rest of the world increasngly sees traditional feminism as an anachronism a throw back to the 60s and wants a new message and a new approach for the new century.

I do fully agree with this though and that is the sort of issue new feminism should focus on:

" We are conditioning a whole new generation of young women to believe that their bodies are ugly. It's bizarre."

Yes it is shameful and women (and men) in the fashion and media industry perpetuate it. Lets start the campaign there - women and men together.

Im all for feminism, as long as it doesnt involve me having to mow the lawn, get up into the loft or change a flat on the car.

potters into the kitchen bare foot to make a cup of tea

Christ, ABetaDad, do you want to be a feminist that badly?!

"Men can never be women so men can never understand the issues women face"

I believe this to be so

"What are you frightened of -that men might actually 'get' what feminism is about and so one day make you and your fight redundant?"

Unlikely (virtually impossible IMO), but hey, if it were to happen, and the fight was made redundant, I would be over the bloody moon.

"I never said you need my permission or any man's permission to want fair and equal treatment."

True enough, I inferred it from your posts which were advising feminists to get men on board in order to effect change.

"Keep shoutng in the dark if you want to but the rest of the world increasngly sees traditional feminism as an anachronism a throw back to the 60s and wants a new message and a new approach for the new century."

Well, thanks for speaking for the world there. 'Traditional feminism'? Are you sure you really 'get' feminism?

At least we agree on one point

Agreement between men and women on these issues is undoubtedly a positive thing, but I do not believe it is a necessary pre-requisite for change.

If that makes me a "campaigning feminist" , so be it. I'll live with it.

Ah you see, I want to be the one mowing the lawn, going into the loft and sorting out the car. While DH looks after the kids.

Horses for courses eh

BTW I am not keen to sign up for anything which means I have to shave my legs regularly, if that helps with anything.

Our guinea pigs (female, hairy) mow the lawn. A step forward for human gender equity, a step back for animal rights.

...well, I suppose you won't find love with Norman Mailer, Bernard Manning or Jeremy Clarkson...but would you WANT to?

Im quite happy that my DP is bigger and stronger than me and can open jars, which i cant!

Absolutely Lovelytin, each to their own

Mowing the lawn is more satisfying, out in the fresh air etc. IMO.

Hoovering is not too bad.

Dusting is awfully dull.

We may be getting off the point here

Personally I find it difficult to disassociate feminism with the decades of fights my parents had which were always over women's rights type issues verses what (my dad considered to be anyway) a good wife should do. Ironically my mum fought for the right to go back to work after having us and some years later found herself paying for absolutely everything - mortgage, food, cost of bringing us up etc when my dad went AWOL for a few years. Now they are back together since we have all left home (no doubt saying all of the troubles stemmed from us kids but that is another story). In short I find it hard to associate feminism with anything other than conflict, aggression, anger, unhappiness and ironically, the final cherry on the cake, a chance to take ALL of the responsibility for your family whether you want to or not.
My husband and I have some kind of happy balance, although in dicussions he does not like the idea of feminism he is more than happy for me to work if I want to or not if I don't. I do work and he works too (harder than me as it happens). We share childcare. We never discuss feminism and I never feel controlled or unhappy. I am just glad there is no "feminism" in our house as I would hate for my children to have to go through the conflict which was family life for me when I was a child in the name of women's rights

I think i may well be lazyist and a sexist, i love a man in a tool belt