to be angry at a good friend for benefit fraud...

[Treil]

She is a single Mum claiming to stay at home but has at least 3 cash in hand jobs that I know of. It's not just about the morality of it, i'm also really worried about her ending up in serious trouble. The longer this goes on (4 years now) the more cash in hand work she does and the more she seems to expect and feel 'entitled' to. I have tried talking to her but she is very defensive and seems able to justify it to herself at least. It is badly affecting our friendship.

Meanwhile my partner and I are working hard, paying taxes and have the current economic climate hanging over our heads, it just doesn't seem right somehow ...

Would really like to get some perspective on this and welcome your views/experiences. I can't even talk to my partner about it because he is more wound up than me and would probably report her.

The gap between private and council rents is insane. If that's what you have to do, that's what you have to do.

i don't think you are insane either..desperate yes insane no

I bet there are thousands out there in your position and I would probably do the same thing if I had too

Well, maiden, DH works full-time and I work on a freelance/self-employed basis.

Our landlord is coming back from abroad to live in his house.

We're on working tax credits and partial housing benefit because we can't afford full-whack private rent/council tax. We cannot find anyone who will take any housing benefit and/or take WTC into account into the minimum income requirements.

So we'll take whatever we are offered.

There are no big estates round here, so that isn't an issue, the bigger issue is that what might be offered might be in a very rural location, much more so than even here, but beggars can't be chosers and we are running out of time.

Do you realise how incredibly stressful the process is?

Because the council has to first determine that you are unintentionally homeless before they have a legal obligation to house you.

They have 28 days to do this AFTER you've gone into their office, usually, by appointment.

Then you have to harrass and harrass them for their decision.

If your council's housing stock has been transferred to a housing association, you'll have to harrass them, too.

Meanwhile, you and your child will be living under a black cloud. You'll be packing your things with no idea where you'll be living, waiting for the clock to tick down to when you have to be out.

It's entirely possible you could be placed in temporary accommodation or a B&B. For months and possibly over a year.

If you're in a B&B, there are rules. You may have to share a bathroom, for example. You may have to be out all day. You will both sleep in one room.

But if you think it's worth it and getting social landlord housing is easy, by all means, go for it.

I agree, sheep!

But it's important to realise how it all works and that often, temp accommodation or B&B.

It might not be as straightforward as 'here, here's a place to live.'

That's why we're so stressed out just now.

It's a myth that all people who live in a socialised housing are on benefits.

Not sure if anyone else has answered the question that was posed earlier but we are not paying out more in benefits than what we collect in tax & NI.

Taken from the annual accounts of DWP and HMRC for 2008/09.

Total DWP benefit expenditure - £135.9 billion

Total HMRC Tax Credits expenditure - £24.1 billion

Total tax and NI collected - £435.7 billion

Still, £160 billion is a pretty big chunk of £435.7 billion.

Expat, my Mum was recently on the verge of being homeless, she was retiring from her job, which came with a house - she applied to ha/council etc, within 20 mile radius of where she lived, she was offered really depressing sheltered housing, my ds with sn refused to go in the place...the day we went with her to view it, we took a wrong turning and saw an empty house, it was perfect, council housing, a wee bungalow.

My mum went into the council and asked about the empty house the next day, a couple of weeks before she was due to move out of her flat. The council gave her the keys and let her view it, it was newly refurbished - why did they not offer her that in the first place?

So, if there are any houses that are ha/council housing near you that are empty (unlikely I know) it might be worth going and having a look and bringing them to the council's attention.

thank you, broken!

we have seen that place we were first offered, and we saw workmen going in there - it needs new heating and kitchen and bath, but i know from ringing on friday that a family turned it down just last week.

so mebbe?

and, my DH recently helped his colleague move from a 3 bed council flat to a one-bed flat, because his two children had grown and flown the coop and their mother died long ago, so he didn't want the bother.

still, he had to harrass the HA for ages to get him moved.

and i know the exact address of that place he vacated about 4 weeks ago you can better believe i'll be asking about that!

anything to get housed. and yeah, okay, we'll be big council scum. well, you know? so? at least the people there won't be all judgemental that DH works in a hotel. big deal.

thanks for them figures WickedWench..I've heard that "benefits cost more than gets raised in tax" hooey about 5 times this week!

(thanks Channel 4)

Good luck expat, my mum has a lovely house, she is so happy. She has worked since she was 14, so she has always paid her way, in taxes etc, but she has never had much money.

I think if Mum hadn't asked, she would never have been offered that place, they would have said take what you have been offered and be grateful...

Thanks, broken! My DH has always worked from when he left school at 16, too, except the 4 years he was SAHD and I was working FT.

But he'd never grass folks. He'd never dream of it, tbh.

I immigrated here in 2001. I worked, too, from 2003 till 2007 till then he worked again, FT.

Again, nah, I'm not interested in grassing unless it's super bad. Like, I once shopped someone. But it was someone from my native country who knew damn well they had NO recourse to public funds and were tight and used to boast all the time how much savings they had in their native country and a big fat lot of a deposit and such and then went and got tax credits and that was bullshit, because it was a straight up needless visa breakage, not even someone in need and not British and not wanting to stay and contribute or be British.

But otherwise, no, I can't say I'm much bothered.

Have been thinking about you expat. Hoping for good news for your family next week. Everything crossed.

I know what it's like to be at the mercy of the council homeless department as it happened to me 3 years ago.

I had no choice to sell my house I jointly owned it with my ex,he threatened court action and so on. The day we exchanged with new buyer I had to go to the council and declare myself homeless where I had an interview with this vile vile woman who sat there and smugly told me that as I 'agreed' to sell my house I'd made myself intentionally homeless, the council could only offer me temp accom and after that I would be on the streets and my kids would be taken off me. It didn't matter to her that every private house I'd gone for had turned me down because a I was only working pt and b I had children. I also had no money left to buy another house, Once it had been split and paid off all the arrears there was little left.

Luckily (and I thank my lucky stars for Homestart, wonderful organisasion) Homestart had thier agm and thier just happened to be a senior housing officer there. My homestart family organiser really stated my case and she listened because 2 days later I was offered a house and she had over ruled the homeless officer..

I know I was lucky and there are many many people out there who aren't so lucky. I was one week into being moved into N S (don't want to say the name on here) and that is a shithole.

The whole social housing system and allocation is crap and I am so against people buying council houses as I think that this has been one of the reasons why there is a shortage of council housing now.

I agree, sheep! A lot of HA's around here don't allow right-to-buy for new tenants.

That's all right with me!

Happy to pay it forward when teh time comes.

But have to get it first.

I maybe am desperate lol, dont think I am insane just yet (have a feeling it wont take much more to push me over the edge lol). I just want a decent life for myself and my daughter thats all from a system that i and many many others have paid into all thier lives. I am going to wait to see what the council say next week but to be honest dont hold out much hope, but after talking to friends not working etc maybe my only hope.

I really really hope then, that your council/HA has a better system in place than ours.

Because whilst you may hear stuff even from staff, the process of becoming homeless, and once again, yes, we work!, is very, very stressful.

I don't blame the poor for how insane house prices are adn the tenancy laws. That's the really the root of the problem and it's not their fault.

maidenvoyage, you need to be earning over £30,810 for your DD not to be getting EMA (less than that she could get a reduced rate)

I have often thought that the amount of EFFORT that some people go to to do dodgy benefit claims and evade tax - well they might as well get a job!

Hi that figure is not quite right Mermaid, you have to earn under £20k and i earn £32k. Which may seem a lot but with rent of £1000.00 does not leave much left after bills etc. She is not entitled to EMA i have spoken to the college and DWP. So i have to put her through college. If i was not working she will get full ema, i will get housing benefit etc, get thrown out of house for not being able to pay full rent. (they will pay £670.00) perfect solution I dont think lol

Maiden, I work in a college and this is the info we give out:
Your household income (for financial year 2008-09) How much EMA you get
up to £20,817 per year £30 per week
£20,818 - £25,521 per year £20 a week
£25,522 - £30,810 per year £10 a week
more than £30,810 per year no entitlement to EMA

It's bloody ridiculous really. Most of the kids that don't get EMA are the ones who don't have money to get to college because yes, their parents might earn more but they also pay out more. It has been suggested time and time again (by me included) that it should be either based on the parent's disposable income or not means tested at all.

Me too. And whethergirl, another ace post.

Gah! My last post made no sense whatsoever!
I was seconding sheepgomeep's post wishing expat well.

Thanks, all!

Housing officer's come and gone.

She offered a 3-bed flat in the same building where we'd originally seen the 4-bed one (which is now gone).

This one is on the first floor rather than starting on the second and has only one tiny balcony rather than two larger ones.

She warned it's in a dire state.

Okay.

Well, I told her we'd like to see it so she'll hopefully be able to get us in there for this afternoon after DH gets home from work - he gets off at 3.30 today.

So we'll see what he thinks.

We're running out of time.

OMG OMG OMG I have to share this news with you all. We have been offered a two bed flat. (Yes it is in a tower block but hey it will be our home once we shut the door). Rent is £450.00 per month!!!! I just have to go view it. Yes I know I am being optimistic but I can carry on working and have money left at the end of the month.

Expat: I really really hope you get fantastic news. I shall watch this post and send you all the best wishes in the world...

xxxxxx