to consider moving to a town (Saffron Walden) so that my DCs can be state educated (good schools)?

[thedolly]

ATM we live in a semi rural area and the DCs are at a Prep School. We are very happy with the school but the money to pay for it will run out eventually and I will end up working to pay for school fees.

Should we just stay put (in our very nice house) and brave the local state schools or move to a place where house prices are very expensive but the schools have a good reputation?

You need to visit the local state schools during the school day. Have a look to see if the children are happy. It also worth reading the OFSTED report. League tables can be deceptive as schools high up in the league tables are often in better areas.

My son's school have a good OFSTED report, but is not particularly high up in the league tables. He has done really well academically as he has the right attitude to learning and good teachers. Provided a school has good discipline teaching it does not matter what rich or poor or intelligent the other kids are.

I have read all the OFSTED reports for the local schools (primary and middle) and they are all Grade 2.

I have not visited any of the schools during the school day but I have driven past the schools and have on most cases been put off by the location and general grubbiness of them. Even the primary school in the new area that we looked at yesterday was uninspiring - it had portacabins .

What's so about a couple of portacabins?

Can't see any reason you would BU if you want to move. Can't see anything wrong with working to pay school fees if you choose to stick with private education either.

It depends on what your local state schools are like. I really wouldnt go judging by a couple of portacabins.
Dont forget to take some hand sanitiser when you "brave the local state schools".

What's wrong with Grade 2?

Half the time that schools don't get 'outstanding' is because the nursery playground is too small or they don't have enough computers. You can't make a decision until you have met the head and seen the children in action. Getting Grade 1 is sometimes just doing things to tick all the right boxes. You need to go on more than OFSTED reports.

Are you local at the moment?

In principle I think a house in a good area with good state schools is a better option than feeling you have to pay for private.

Secondary is a lot more expensive than prep for starters... and then there are all the trips, extras etc

You need to look at individual schools. And I entirely agree, look beyond the portacabins. Our local state school which is excellent academically doesn't look inspiring, but it's what goes on inside the classrooms that matters!

But on balance, I think you get your money's worth better from being in a good area and not having to pay for private.

Saffron Walden is a lovely little town, obviously I don't know if you are local to the town at present. Three of my friends went to both schools there, one is currently at the sixth form and they have all had very positive experiences.

YANBU - its a lovely town and very close to where I grew up and my grandparents still live. I think some of the schools have an excellent reputation and if its that important for you to move I would go for it. There are also some very good schools in the local area, moving along the border into Cambridgeshire too, so have a good look around

We are not local to SW atm. It is a very nice town but we would be down-sizing to move there.

violethill it is so difficult to know what goes on inside the classrooms of any school - how can you really tell?

I also agree about the Grade 2/Grade 1 thing.
So how are you supposed to know which is the right/best school?

Have to disagree that getting a grade 1 is about size of playground or enough computers.

Ofsted gradings these days are mainly driven by progress and achievement and the effectiveness of safeguarding procedures. Many schools are unable to achieve a grade 1 (outstanding) simply because of intake issues (eg a year group with a high level of special needs) which lead to inconsistency in progress and achievement. In these cases inspectors will sometimes in the commentary say that schools are 'good with outstanding features' - which still leads to a grade 2 (good) overall.

I think it's always worth reading the ofsted reports in full and not just going on the grade, because sometimes a school is a 3 because of historic problems but the commentary will acknowledge that the school is really improving.

To get a grade 2 from ofsted these days is really tough and I've been more than happy with my dc at grade 2 schools. Obviously how it feels when you go round is crucial too and whether you like the HT.

BTW am not a teacher but been a Chair of Governors several years which is how I've got to know these things.

you can't. Good exam results is a good sign though. But beware of GNVQ ICT - make sure they are real exams, not bollocks ones designed to make the school look better.

I have lurked and contributed on many a state versus private thread and I don't think I am under any illusions about the private sector having better teachers etc.

There are good/bad teachers in both and good/bad managers. What is different is the level of 'aspiration' that the pupils present with.

Pupils in private schools generally come from families that have 'achieved' wrt career aspirations.

Is that an important factor or just a red herring. As parents we have a responsibility to inspire our DC to aspire - right? For me that has meant sending them to private school. Am I confused/loopy/a snob?

Pease help, this is a real dilemma and I now do not know which way to turn.

thedolly - arrange to look around when the school is in session - not on a formal open morning but just on an ordinary day. Any decent school will be happy to oblige with that. If they arrange a couple of pupils to give you the tour it's a good sign too - pupils are usually very honest, - ask them lots of questions and you'll soon pick up on whether they are proud to belong to their school etc

My grandmother did her teacher training at Saffron Waldron. However, that's got nowt to do with owt.

What I would say is that good state schools are nearly always far better than the mid-priced independent sector.

What I would also say is just how pissed off I get with people who want to dip their toes and out of the state system whenever they deem it possible to find a state school that will protect their children from integrating with all aspects of society. If you can pay to send your children to an independent school then do so. Don't make a mockery out of the state system.

But yes, make sure you bathe in Dettol after you"brave the local state schools". You just don't know where the children might have been, do you?

ManicMother7777 - the how it feels and HT thing are so hard to judge - I have been wrong in the past.

I think you only get to know a school by taking your children there every day and seeing how the school handles issues as they arise. The whole thing is a bit of a leap of faith.

It's perfectly easy to 'inspire your children to aspire' without paying for their education. It's about the attitude you present and the example you set, neither of which are things you can purchase.

My parents always made me believe that I could achieve anything I wanted and be anything I wanted in life. They would have cut off their right arms before considering paying for my education.

I would agree with that flowery.

I think some parents pay for private because they lack confidence in themselves, rather than the state sector.

Not saying that applies to every situation, but I have definitely seen some parents where that's the case.

violethill - thnks for that, the pupils being proud to belong to their school is an important factor.

Pikelit - you are on to something with the 'integrating with all aspects of society' thing. Should I be happy for my DC to integrate with pupils that have no aspirations?

If I could afford to pay then I definitely would in my present state of mind. ATM I would go for the cheapo independent option(if there was one) rather than state - I am beginning to think that I am nuts .

Everyone has their own story to tell and for me, good quality education was the making of me .

flowery - I am confident in the example that I set my children and the attitude that I present to them - it the attitudes/examples of other children and their parents that I am worried about and in the state sector more so than the private sector.

I know that there are attitudes in the private sector that have to be dealt with but dealing with those would some how make me feel less of a snob than dealing with some of the things that I imagine having to deal with in the state sector.

It is my greatest fear that I will end up a snob .

Yes, you should be happy for your DC to integrate with pupils that have different aspirations. I would be disappointed with any school that couldn't inspire everyone regardless of their advantages but actually, you do your own children no good at all by shielding them from the world. That this world contains people we mayn't wish to have around our dinner tables is a shock best learnt earlier!!

Also, the cheapo independent model is probably the worst decision you can make. I have been there, witnessed the same mistake made by friends and also seen just how superior is the average state secondary school in comparison.

Your children will of course come across people with a mixture of attitudes in a state school, as they will in life generally. They are most likely to pick up their own attitudes from your own example though and are more likely to gravitate towards children with similar approaches to make friends. You are sounding a bit snobby if I'm honest, and if it's going to bother you so much, work to pay private fees rather than worrying about it.

The other thing to mention is that if your children pick up your own attitudes, as they will, given your own misgivings about state sector education and the way you are coming across here, if your children hear any of that or feel it in your own attitude, exhibiting those attitudes in a state school probably won't do them any favours...

'Everyone has their own story to tell and for me, good quality education was the making of me '

You see, ironic as it may seem, I see that as one of the potential downsides of a private education. It can make some people grow up thinking that their successes in life are entirely down to the arbitrary fact that their parents had enough money to put them through a private school!!

Why not have confidence that 'the making of you' has actually been a far more complex process, involving many influences? And you don't know how you would have turned out anyway, had you been to what you perceive to be a 'less good' school, do you? Think ahead about your own children too.... if they see their own success as entirely down to the fact that you paid for their education, how are they going to feel if they can't afford to pay for their children in turn?

My own experience was of what was probably a fairly bog standard comp. I went to Uni, did a higher degree, and have a successful career. I like to think having parents who were interested and involved, and also a healthy amount of self motivation played quite a big role in that. In fact that last point - self motivation - is probably the biggest factor in future success at Uni and in the world of work. You can't wrap your children up forever, they will come into contact with the real world at some point, and better to have learned self motivation than to rely on everyone else around them.

Hang about the town and have a good look at how the pupils of the various schools behave when they come out. Look at the destinations of the pupils and also I think value added scores are quite important.

flowery - I have been careful not to inflict my 'prejudices' on my children. Atm they know that they are going to Prep School because we can currently afford it and that it is 'buying' smaller class sizes and more outside space.

Pikelit - it's good to know that I am not alone . What do you mean when you say you have been there? I do feel like I am going down the wrong path if I stick to private at all costs. If I won the lottery I wouldn't even consider state - does that make me a snob? I love giving my children virtual ownership of acres and acres of well kept land .

What I would say is that good state schools are nearly always far better than the mid-priced independent sector.

There is no such thing as the 'mid-priced' independent sector.

At least not in the way you describe it.

Of course Eton is very expensive, but some of the top 50 schools in the country are modestly priced (by private standards), while others are substantially more expensive.

There are however some very mundane private schools which underperform nearby state comprehensives.