To think that my friend should just recognise that her birth experience wasn't THAT bad?

[FreddysTeddy]

Have a feeling I'll get a few YABU's but interested in the overall consensus.

My friend had what I would describe as a difficult birth, she had a large baby, 24 hourish labour and failed ventouse then forceps delivery.

She doesn't go on and on about it to be fair, but if the subject of childbirth comes up she always talks about how awful her experience was.

Whilst I recognise that it wasn't a walk in the park I think she slightly over-eggs how bad it was as if it was the worst thing that ever happened to her.

I've got a friend who ended up with a crash section after three days in labour and one whose little one spent 6 weeks in SCBU so I guess I just think that they are the ones who really know what traumatic births are.

Am rather glad you're not my 'friend'

To the OP: Fuck Off, dear. Since when were you appointed the Authority on Traumatic Births? I had no idea you'd sat yourself at a desk and grudgingly awarded 'traumatic' rubber stamps for those that matched your impossibly high criteria for trauma. Do you sit there and tick things off a list? Where is your empathy for God's sake?

Presumably it hasn't occured to you that your friend likes to talk about it from time to time because she needs to talk about it. Not because she's in competition with everyone else (although you seem to be) but because she's somehow trying to process what happened to her. The need to talk through a traumatic event is widely recognised and the fact that your friend still feels the need to talk about what happened to her and about how awful it was simply illustrates that she is traumatised by it. It's probably news to you, but women with PND and post-birth PTSD are routinely referred for counselling and CBT because it's understood that talking though the event with someone sympathetic is hugely healing and beneficial. Consider that the next time you inwardly roll your eyes when your friend mentions her birth.

I find your comment about how you think she "slightly over-eggs how bad it was" so offensive that I actually think you're being deliberately incendiary and controversial. You've picked a sensitive and emotive topic for a lot of people and made some rather sweeping generalisations and unsypathetic comments. So you're either bored or ignorant on the realities of birth trauma, either way I'd like to point you in the direction of the Birth Trauma Association. There's a few juicy stories on there that might just meet your exacting standards of what constitutes a traumatic birth. None of them are as brave as you as they haven't managed to suck it up, eh?

I wish you'd been at your friend's delivery. I wish you'd sat through every minute of her 24-hourish labour and failed ventouse and then held her hand whilst they pulled at her with forceps. I wish you'd been there for every second of that brutality as I bet you wouldn't be quite so smug. Chances are you'd be on the floor from it. It's called empathy. Try it.

With my eldest son, I had a 70 odd hour labour. He was posterior presentation and he also weighed over 8 pounds.

I tried labour for all those hours, I then had to have forceps delivery because he was becoming distressed (I knew exactly how he felt!)

The pain relief wasn't given time to work properly before the doctor performed the procedure, but tbh the pain relief injection hurt like hell

I then had a post-partum bleed, spent hours hooked up to a drip with a newborn to try and feed.

I had the worst flashbacks for years, even after my second sons' very straightforward birth. In some ways, it was worse after my second sons birth. With him I had the birth I had imagined for my first, I felt very cheated and as though I had let him down in some way.

So, yes OP you are being very unreasonable and very unsmypathetic.

I also think yabu. I think birth experiences are individual. Mine was pretty traumatic as well. I had an emergency c section at 25 weeks. My son ended up in scbu for over 4 months and wasnt even breathing at birth and had to be recussitated. He weighed in at just over a pound.

It was a horrific time for me and i could go on forever but as one poster said, maybe she needs to talk about it.

Empathy is the way!

YABTU!!!

It does sound horrific, even a good birth is 'horrific'!!

My last birth was a t home, on my couch, 4 hours, no stitches, no pain relief,

but I still bloody cringe whn I think about it and in reality I had a 'dream birth'

YABU I think your attitude is extremely unkind
I hope you are not talking about me, it sounds very much like my first baby's birth!

You are so unreasonable.
Who are you to say how bad it was. Were you there?
It could be the worst thing that has ever happened to her.

Christ this must be a troll. Nobody could have such a crap attitude, could they?

I had an easy birth, very very luckily. I don't know anyone deals with 24 hour labours, forceps, ventouse, all that. I think the OP's friends (and anyone else who getsthrough traumatic births) should be given as much support as possible.

YABVU, and a cow.

I agree with disenchanted3. The reality is that for some people any birth at all would be traumatic. No-one can prepare you for the pain. and no-one can prepare you for the fear (possibly irrational but wtf is rationality after hours of excruciating pain) that your baby or you are going to die. and for some people the physical pain is inextricably tied up with emotional pains from their whole life time - and even from other people's lives. I relived my parents inability to conceieve, my brother's adoption, his birth-mother's pain, my parent's divorce and much more when I was in labour. Funnily enough none of that translates very well into a physical/medical account of whether or not it was "traumatic". surely the shared experience of giving birth (in a million and one different ways) is something we can dig up a bit of solidarity on.

omg - just re-read op and the reference to "as if it was the worst thing that ever happened to her". erm, maybe it was.

YABVVVU....it probably was the worst thing that ever happend to her.

Sounds like my first labour, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

I had the easiest birth in many regards. Compared to most of my friends I am extremely lucky and I would never compare my birth to theirs.

But... as someone who knows exactly all the things that could go wrong, giving birth in a hospital where I have looked after people when things did go wrong, having the midwives ignore me and patronise me when I said things were going wrong was my worst nightmare and so for me the birth was traumatic.

All's well that ended well - but without the arrival of the world's best midwife who wandered onto the ward by fluke but knew me well enough to listen to me and my doctor hubby by my side our DS would be dead or severely brain damaged - it was traumatic but I still had an easy birth in your book (6 how labour, no tears, fully midwife led, no intervention 30min second stage).

Not necesarily a troll as it is hard sometimes to understand what is upsetting for someone else - but if she is your friend you owe it to her to try.

YABVVVVVVU

I feel for the poor 'friend', I hope she has better friends in real life than the OP.

Hmm, on balance yes I think YABU.

My DS died during labour (he was strangled by the cord and no-one realised til he was delivered). For a while I did feel really irritated when people who had a healthy baby complained about the trauma of their birth experience.No matter how bad it was, I would think, yes, but your baby is at least alive!!.

However, that was when my grief was really raw. Now I can honestly say that the reason I think YABU is because every birth experience is individual to that person. This obviously is the worst thing that has ever happened to her. As her friend you should try to empathise and support her when she needs it.

OP, if you are still there , why are you being so mean? I have 2 healthy DCs. I had a placental abruption with DS and a threatened emergency section, although he made his way out down the chute in the end. DD came out 16 minutes after arriving in teh delivery suite - no pain relief and she was blue and floppy. All I can remember from that is shouting at DH "why isn't she making any noise" with DH crying and saying everything would be OK. Fortunately it was. So, two births, better than for some people, worse than for others. But still, for me, the scariest, upsetting experiences of my life. OP, so what if you think shes over-egging?? Have a little understanding if you're really her friend.

YABVU - try supporting your poor friend, or give her my details and I'll sympathise, not only with her birth experience but her choice in obviously unsympathetic mates

Interestingly (and unsurprisingly) the OP seems to have disappeared

hatwoman I found your post very interesting. I thought it was just me! I was very worried about giving birth to DS3 because, for me, pain is inextricably linked to my DD's illness. I was terrified that I would flip out and not cope at all with labour. It was a real worry for me but not one I could get anyone involved to understand. They thought I was scared of being in pain rather than scared of the memories that being in pain would prevoke.

I tried to find any research on birth after traumatic loss but it was all centered stillbirth and neonatal loss.

As it happened I coped ok but I really identify with your post (also have adopted DS).

LilMissPerimoenopause, I'm so sorry.

OP - I do hope your freind is able to face another lavour, if she wants more children.

If she is nervous about going thorugh labour again, you could sugest she talks it thorugh with a councilor, or has a hypnotherapy session to help her with her (quite justifiable) fear.

Maybe just by talking of her bad experience when someone brings up birth will be enough to get her through it.

ob

lilmiss I meant to express my sympathy for the loss of your DS. I am sorry I got carried away before I did so.

I am sorry for your loss

OP Who the fu*k are you to make these kinds of assumptions about birth experiences. Mine was shit. I had expected it to be the best day of my life but was so traumatised by events - not the pain necessarily but the feeling of utter despir i felt when no one would listen to me. I knew something wasn't right and had to fight to get a consultant to come and examine me. ended up with forceps and 3rd degree tearing. My DD is 3 nom but i'm still to scared to have another baby. I hope you rethink your callous shitty attitude.

LilMissPerimenopause - i'm so sorry for what hapened to you. should have said that in last post.

My friend had a crash CSec (or emergency - not sure). Anyway, she says she didn't feel scared or stressed for one minute, the baby was out within 5 minutes and no-one panicked her at all. Whereas I had a normal birth, nothing other than gas and air, 5 hours, yet I felt utterly traumatised by it and had flash backs for months. I felt out of control, no one believed how quickly my labour was progressing, the delivery suites were all full so I gave birth on the antenatal ward and wasn't allowed off the bed. One midwife tried to force syntocinyn (or whatever it is they give you for the placenta) despite my firm refusals and no need for it due to natural birth. I hated the feeling of giving birth and the thought makes me feel sick.

Labour is one of the scariest and most painful out of control things to happen to a woman, and it is often tied up with many expectations and psychological issues. So what seems to you like something not to get worked up about can actually be really difficult to someone else.

And as for the argument that other people had worse times, well, you could use that argument for anything, we might as well all log off mumsnet and stop whinging as there are people far worse off than most of us.

So yes, YABU but I wonder if there is something else going on here for this to both you, when even by your own admission she doesn't go on about it?

LilMiss...am so so sorry for your loss...

of course any birthexperience no matter how bad, if baby is alive and well, seems comparably fine , if compared to a birth ending up with a disabled or dead child....of course that is the "worst case scenario"....but indeed, the experience is still something that needs to be worked through....forinstance I am pretty sure that, had I had my 3rd ds first, going from homebirth to e-c-section wouldn't have been that much of an issue for me , because I had no expectation of Birth, and the staff at the rosie maternity hospital was so lovely.....but ds. 3 was born after one "could have been traumatic" but for me wasn't Birth and a wonderful almost panfree almost natural birth, bar gas and air and them breaking my waters...and it was long and slow, but so relaxed and painfree, I did not care....the staff at home with ds 3 was lovely but not as confident as they could have been, my son was in a double wrong position causing labour to be very painful, and the ambulance staff and hospital staff was horrid, bar a wonderful anaesthetist (sp?) and some lovely mw's on the ward....I was totally not prepared for things to go wrong, dispite writing a birtplan for all eventualities (I did not believe it would happen)...I am totally ashamed of my lack of love for ds3 in the first few month, and do wonder if he was such horrid screaming (24/7) because of me, or if the lack of love was also due to him being that way....some people, including friends, were very unsupportive, adding to my feelings of guilt, making me feel even worse, and that is counter productive....yes, I didn't have the worst birth, of course not....but at the time I was in shock, I was not able to cope, I was not only many miles away from my own family (in Germany) but also Inlaw family (who are in England)....I also had a 21 month old very lively tot to care for and a schoolchild to sort out everyday, with a dh in the army with not that much time...it possibly wasn't just the birth, it was everything....and that is why you can never compare one birth to the other...each birth, even of the individual, will be experienced differently because of the general mindset and circumstances of the time....

so...obviously experiences as lil miss, or those of my cousin, who lost her Baby at 20 weeks in a quick birth, are terrible, and I don't anyone would deny this...but it isn't a competition, and you cannot help your feelings...and thisis again, in response to op, not people who shared their stories...iykwim