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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to expect my son aged 11 to be asleep at this hour?

157 replies

TheLadyEvenstar · 19/08/2009 01:00

forget all other posts i have put up they are irrelevant.

I have made plans to take him to the coast tomorrow with his friend her mum myself and ds2.

So at 9 i asked him to go to bed and allowed him to watch a film. I just went to put ds2 into his bed (he goes to sleep on sofa and i transfer him when i go to bed) and find ds1 still awake, but him thinking he is smarter than me closes his portable dvd player down when he hears me coming up hallway.

I have removed the dvd player and am seriously doubting going tomorrow, because

1- i cannot go to bed until he is asleep
2- he will be hard to get up in the morning
3- he will be a total grump all day because he is tired
4- he has just told me to get lost and get out of his life...all i said is you have lost your dvd player until you learn not to the mickey out of me. (and i did not even argue i walked away, ok sounds silly but i am proud of myself!)

OP posts:
Morloth · 19/08/2009 14:25

TLES, his behaviour didn't happen overnight and it isn't going to get better overnight - it could takes years so don'y start something that you are not going to stick with - it will just confuse him further.

Stayingsunnygirl · 19/08/2009 14:29

I don't think that's fair, thatsnotmybelly. I don't think that TLES is portraying herself as the victim, instead I think she is being incredibly honest about what her son does, what she does and how it is making her feel - and regarding that last one, I think it is very important that she can express her feelings. She does need to be able to vent.

She's in a very tough situation, and from what I read in her posts, I suspect that she is sleep-deprived and exhausted, mentally, physically and emotionally, which is making the whole thing much much harder to deal with.

TheLadyEvenstar · 19/08/2009 14:33

Thats, what would you describe it as?
I would be a victim of Parent abuse...if it existed. In the last 6 weeks i have

been punched
had my books ripped
been stolen from
had my mobile smashed
been kicked
been screamed at
had ornaments my dad (died 6 yrs ago) bought me smashed deliberatly
had my laptop thrown (thankfully was undamaged)

in return i have emptied his room of all electricals he has just toys and books in there aside from bed.

and guess what? he still carries on, IF there was something the matter with him for example he had a sn then you could accept it. But when YOU know him and know what he is capable of then you realise he is well aware of what he is doing and does find it entertaining.

Passive in as much as I am tired of the screaming. I only have to hold his hand for instance and walk him up the hallway to his room and he is screaming "no mummy please mummy stop mummy" and then when i close his door he throws himself across the room.

The other side of him is so lovely!!! I just wish i saw more of it.

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RumourOfAHurricane · 19/08/2009 14:34

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Morloth · 19/08/2009 14:37

He won't stop screaming until it stops working. Let him scream on the way to his room, let him throw himself across the room. Close the door and walk away.

RumourOfAHurricane · 19/08/2009 14:37

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coolpersephone · 19/08/2009 15:07

TLE Hello
Just want to sympathise with your situation.
You seem to be in a huge muddle.
Your ds sounds bright and as if he has strong feelings and a strong will.
This is not easy to deal with but made worse by unclear boundaries throughout his life ...and now you are trying to clamp down because he is out of control.But you don't know how to and he won't accept it.
Added to that emotional damage to do with his dad[is he copying what he witnessed?]and blaming you and it is all a very difficult mix.

First of all,well done for looking after him all this time and doing the best you could at the time.

He needs you to be more powerful than he is ~ not in a chopping his food up way or cancelling trips in a complicated manner way,but in a calm confident doing what is best for him way.
He also needs to understand that you love him and that his father left for a reason ~ for his benefit.That his father has done wrong but that doesn't mean he doesn't love your ds.
He also needs reassurance that he is on the right track,worthy of love and respect.
Take advice and action now before it's too late and you lose him to peers as a teenager or worse,to drugs/crime/truanting.

This may have ben mentioned before but your relationship is intense and he is no doubt jealous of ds2 ~ and that may be part of his anger/outrage.

All the bestx

coolpersephone · 19/08/2009 15:11

Also should have said,stop the endless battles,punishments and counter punishments~be forthright about reasonable expectations.

Sometimes you are too hard on him~like the food chopping,the not telling him about the part of the outing he would have liked,the taking money for chocolate~just say "Next time,ds,ask me before taking any money for sweets".

Bathsheba · 19/08/2009 16:47

Ehm, I'm following this from afar but in some threads you have mentiopned various diagnosed bhavioural problems (ODD being mentioned and I'm sure I've seen ADHD mentioned) and some physical special needs (some condition that makes him black out) but now he has no special needs...

You aren't even being consistant with what you are telling us never mind what you are telling him and all the professionals that surround you.

TheLadyEvenstar · 19/08/2009 18:15

Bath, I said he has been tested for adhd, we were told by one CP he had ODD Oppositional Defiance Disorder - Basically a dislike of rules etc. But other CP's have said he is just naughty...not those exact words...However you have read my posts about his behaviour and below are the facts of ODD you see if you can decide.

A pattern of negativistic, hostile, and defiant behavior lasting at least six months during which four or more of the following are present:

  1. Often loses temper
  2. often argues with adults
  3. often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules
  4. often deliberately annoys people
  5. often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior
  6. is often touchy or easily annoyed by others
  7. is often angry and resentful
  8. is often spiteful and vindictive

Disorder
There is much speculation about the causes of ODD, with no definitive answers at this time. Many parents of kids with Oppositional Defiant Disorder do report that those children were rigid and demanding from an early age, compared to their siblings, raising the possibility that there may be biological or environmental factors involved. Some studies seem to indicate a tendency for ODD to run in families, strengthening the argument for a biological connection. While the causes are still a bit of a mystery, treatment options are well-established.

As for the physical thing it is RAS - Reflex Anoxic Siezures. here are the symptons of that.

What is RAS?

REFLEX ANOXIC SEIZURES occur mainly in young children but can occur at any age. Any unexpected stimulus, such as pain, shock, fright, causes the heart and breathing to stop, the eyes to roll up into the head, the complexion to become deathly white/grey, often blue around the mouth and under the eyes, the jaw to clench and the body to stiffen, sometimes the arms and legs jerk. After 30 seconds or so, the body relaxes, the heart and breathing resume and the person is unconscious. One or two minutes later the person may regain consciousness but can remain unconscious for well over an hour. Upon recovery the person may be very emotional and then fall into a deep sleep for two to three hours and looks extremely pale. RAS attacks may occur several times per day/ week/ month. The attacks appear to come in batches.

Unfortunately, because of the symptoms, it is known that RAS is often mis-diagnosed as temper tantrums, breath holding or as epilepsy. It is, therefore, one of the aims of the Group to bring about both professional and public awareness of RAS.

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slowreadingprogress · 19/08/2009 18:50

Yes he has significant special needs doesn't he. I don't know how the CPs diagnose or not ODD, but if his behaviour is exactly ODD then it IS ODD in my book. He's also clearly significantly damaged by the domestic violence he witnessed and by adult stuff that he was told at too young an age which I remember from another thread.

TLES, that IS special needs even without the RAS.

Accept that he has BIG special needs and maybe that will help you resent his behaviour less and be more at peace with it.

diddl · 19/08/2009 18:52

I can´t find the post now, but did you say that this has been going on for 8 years?

TheLadyEvenstar · 19/08/2009 18:54

SLow, how many times can i say I DO NOT RESENT HIS BEHAVIOUR!!!

It is not resentment. it is tiredness after 8 years. he has been like this since he was 3 when no adult stiff as you put it was known by him...so next thing?

I have been watching him today without watching him if that makes sense, and I too would say ODD but then I have done previously only to be told by this CP it is not whereas last one said it was.

I don't need to accept it because i did a long time ago....only to be told he doesn't....

OP posts:
TheLadyEvenstar · 19/08/2009 18:54

Diddl yes since he was 3 years old.

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slowreadingprogress · 19/08/2009 19:07

don't get distracted by different opinions re the ODD.

His history, his experiences, give him SN - emotionally - just as surely as if he had autism or something. You don't need to accept that then un-accept it because imo that is the truth. And ok so you don't resent his behaviour - well use that acceptance of his SN to stop you arguing with him/getting caught up in his control games. Sounds like you are starting to do this anyway. Maybe it will be easier for you to stop any escalating situations if you remember this is not him but his special needs. Yes it's difficult to remember that because he IS 11, and is intelligent and DOES know what he's doing - given all that, unless he had special needs, he wouldn't be doing what he's doing would he?

RumourOfAHurricane · 19/08/2009 19:10

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slowreadingprogress · 19/08/2009 19:20

shineon that has got to be a good idea - if this were me I would 100% be trying to get in contact with other parents of kids with ODD. His behaviour is absolutely classic ODD as far as I know and whether that is formally diagnosed or not is absolutely secondary IMHO, because it's the behaviour you're dealing with, not the label.

TheLadyEvenstar · 19/08/2009 19:24

Slow and that is what i have been saying for agessssssssssss now to the proffessionals.

I am very pleased with him at the moment!!!!

he has decided that the living room looks better without the travel cot in here so he is emptying it so it can be collapsed......this is what I mean about the other side of him. BUT maybe that is because earlier when he kicked off i used a grown ups voice and my exact words were "DS1 for far too long i have allowed you to treat me like a child, well i am your mum and I am taking the power back from you. now how long that will take i don't know, but you are not going to tell me anymore what you are going to do and what i am going to do" and since then (5pm) he has been good!

OP posts:
Stayingsunnygirl · 19/08/2009 19:29

Well done you, TLES - that sounds like a big step for you both!

slowreadingprogress · 19/08/2009 19:29

have you tried posting on SN board before?
Do you think it's a good idea?

Great that he's being a good egg at the moment but as I'm sure you know he will challenge you again!

TheLadyEvenstar · 19/08/2009 19:30

Staying, yes it is!!! lol

Slow shhhhhhhhhh please let me enjoy it while it lasts pretty please with a cherry, strawberry and chocolate sauce on top.

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slowreadingprogress · 19/08/2009 19:41

well I think you'd be sensible to consider using the SN boards for advice

popsycal · 19/08/2009 19:43

Re RAs - I know a child with it - have taught him for two years and it really does nto seem like your son - though I am no physician

I think he does have special needs, Ladyevenstar - behavioural and emotional issues. I would be seeing the SEn person at his new school as soon as term starts and insist on further investigations.

I think the advice you have been given is good.

But the overriding thing that I can see, looking at it from outside, is a boy who seems quite 'lost' and is stuck in a rut with this cycle of behaviour.

You are having a seriously horrible time.

The one thing that hasn't been mention (I don't think so anyway). Could DP take ds2 away for a few days to give you and ds1 a chance to reestablish your relationship?

One more question - when did this behavoiur start and what was going on in his life at that time?

Really feel for you - I have a ds1 (7) who can be challenging at times so I am reading the responses with a notepad in my hand

popsycal · 19/08/2009 19:44

Was going to mention ODD too.
I see others have done.

RumourOfAHurricane · 19/08/2009 19:49

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