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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to expect my son aged 11 to be asleep at this hour?

157 replies

TheLadyEvenstar · 19/08/2009 01:00

forget all other posts i have put up they are irrelevant.

I have made plans to take him to the coast tomorrow with his friend her mum myself and ds2.

So at 9 i asked him to go to bed and allowed him to watch a film. I just went to put ds2 into his bed (he goes to sleep on sofa and i transfer him when i go to bed) and find ds1 still awake, but him thinking he is smarter than me closes his portable dvd player down when he hears me coming up hallway.

I have removed the dvd player and am seriously doubting going tomorrow, because

1- i cannot go to bed until he is asleep
2- he will be hard to get up in the morning
3- he will be a total grump all day because he is tired
4- he has just told me to get lost and get out of his life...all i said is you have lost your dvd player until you learn not to the mickey out of me. (and i did not even argue i walked away, ok sounds silly but i am proud of myself!)

OP posts:
bigchris · 19/08/2009 09:53

fair enough
yanbu to expect him to sleep before 1am
yabu to have woken him up and cancelled the day out
imo
but i can understand how draining tge whole situation must be

Sonnet · 19/08/2009 09:54

Yes he should be asleep at 1am - without question, for his own health and for your sanity

bedroom at 9pm, no electronics, just a book, up to him when he goes to sleepo and wake him up every morning at the same time - a set of ear plugs and a dose of patience.

Refuse to rise to the bait - do not let him control you.

Sonnet · 19/08/2009 09:56

Also - does he know that you cannot go to bed until he is asleep? ( and I understand why you don't)

If so - you MUST go to bed, and pretend to go to sleep. Remove the control he has over you.

Original poster
TheLadyEvenstar · 19/08/2009 09:59

Grinny, If we do not arrange days out etc he will be indoors and play but then i get it in the neck because we have not gone out...if we do arrange a day out he will moan about where we are going...so it is a no win situation really...I cannot do right for doing wrong...iyswim?

I don't do everything for him which is the reason he kicks off, sorry i didn't explain it well. If I was to wait on him hand and foot and treat him like he was royalty he would be happy. However i expect him to do a few chores and because of this he screams and shouts and kicks off.

OP posts:
Original poster
TheLadyEvenstar · 19/08/2009 10:01

Sonnet yes he knows...the problem is i am so tired that as soon as i get into bed i am gone...hence reason i stay up in living room....... maybe i will just sit in my bedroom on the chair and not get into bed that way he will think i am in bed but i can keep my beady eye on him lol.

OP posts:
Sonnet · 19/08/2009 10:05

Yes - good idea

It is only my opinion but your last comments - he kicks off if we go out, he kicks off if we stay at hone - really points to the fact that it is about control - him controling the situation.

Stayingsunnygirl · 19/08/2009 10:16

TLES - I have sent you a message on facebook with my phone number, if you need a listening ear today.

MotheringHeights · 19/08/2009 10:17

YANBU to expect your DS to be asleep by 1am, you AB a little U to send him to bed with a DVD player and not remove it after the movie.

TLE are you familiar with the concept of planning for success? There's a good chapter on it in a book called Parenting a Defiant Child. There's a link here planning for success

A really simple example would be not leaving the DVD player with your son, but removing it, therefore removing the temptation to keep watching past bedtime.

Original poster
TheLadyEvenstar · 19/08/2009 10:19

Sonnet, you have got it right there, he is controlling...and i need to stop him controlling me.

OP posts:
Sonnet · 19/08/2009 10:22

But easier said then done TLES eh? I do feel for you, honestly!

Pick one thing to concentrate on
Ignore the rest

Oh and ignore ignore the "bad" behaviour ( as in the example of the tea bag handprints the other day!)but do thank him, express pleasure for the good or helpful things he does

Keep smiling!!

PfftTheMagicDragon · 19/08/2009 10:24

Why does he watch a film once he has gone to bed?

KeepPassingTheOpenWindows · 19/08/2009 10:33

I read the other thread too. I have to agree with what other posters are saying, to every piece of advice you come back with an excuse, and reiterate how hard it is.

I can fully understand that it is hard, but from your OP here you are not laying down clear rules.

For one, your ds2 should not get to fall asleep on the sofa. I know that there is a big gap in ages but I think you need FIRM bed time rules for both of them. Say DS2 goes to bed at 7.30. DS1 must go at 9pm.

He shouldn't be going to bed at that time and THEN watching a movie, it will only stimulate him and make it harder to go to sleep. Of course he will be tired in the morning. Better that he reads a book, or if he wants to watch a movie in his room he should be going earlier. Go in and remove the DVD player at an agreed time. Of course he will still be watching it if it is left there.

TELL HIM that this is the case. No negotiation. Agree that if (and only if) he does what you ask him, then you will do X, Y or Z tomorrow. If he disobeys you, don't do it. End of. No matter how much he kicks off. I know this will be hard, but the longer you give in to him to make your life easier, the longer it will continue.

KeepPassingTheOpenWindows · 19/08/2009 10:36

And re. the list of trips, based on your description of his behaviour over the holidays - why have you still let him do all this stuff? You are LETTING him get away with it.

Niecie · 19/08/2009 11:42

I can't help thinking, with that many trips, you might have been able to afford a cheap holiday if you hadn't spent so much on going out.

I would say he isn't left enough to his own devices and if I were you, I wouldn't plan any more trips this week, except for the park or the shops. You need to get some fresh air and a change of scene but I wouldn't be spending any money on him for a while. He doesn't appreciate it and you end up worn out with the effort of it all. I bet you are on tenterhooks waiting for the next bad thing to happen.

Get him to help you out at home with packing and day to day stuff if he is at his best when he feels needed. Put some trust in him to behave properly. If he doesn't, ignore him. If he does, heap praise on him. I can imagine, if he is as bad as you say, you very rarely get to praise him for anything. I think, as well as ignoring the bad, you need to find something, anything, positive to focus on and praise.

Can I ask, where does your DP fit into all this? Does he help at all? Sorry if you have been through all this before but I haven't read your other threads.

My in-laws went through something like this with their DS although not nearly so prolonged or serious and in the end the dad spoke to the son, man to man so to speak and told his son that he must not talk to his wife like he was. Apparently that brought his up short and proved a bit of turning point. The boy knew his dad was on the side of his mum and it wasn't the way you treat your mother. Maybe, if your DP isn't doing it already, he needs to back you up more.

Original poster
TheLadyEvenstar · 19/08/2009 12:09

Hi Niece, DP does his best with him, he supports me for the most part although he is normally out of here in the mornings before ds's get up due to his work. Sometimes he is here and starts work in the afternoon, while he is here ds is okish towards me..he is great with dp. as soon as dp walks out of the door ds starts....He has spoken to him before and takes him out alone so they get time together....

Pfft, because sometimes it is easier to let him watch it than face another night of screaming.

Keeppassing...

everything you say makes sense. Sadly I have to admit I am tired...and I don't mean i need to sleep. I am tired of the constant anomosity, tension, and noise tbh. DS2 as you say needs to be in bed....by the time ds1 has finally quietened down it is normally (not always) 11pm....recently he kept ds2 awake until 12.30am....

There has to be some break in this whole thing, i don't for one second think i am perfect but i know i try my damn hardest to do what is right by my child. and whilst for some (most) people a lot of these methods will work for some they won't.

What would you do in this situation for example : I remove said dvd player from bedroom, he gets up, i take him back, he comes back, i take him back telling him to stay in his room, he gets up and bangs up the hallway disturbing ds2, i take him back, he comes back putting all lights on, i take him back telling him again to stay in his room, he comes back to living room screaming at me that i am evil, need to let him have fun, stop trying to tell him what to do, do i not realise he is a better person than everyone...and so on until eventually he sits in the living room and i end up turning the tv off for him to get up and turn it on again....until eventually when he has worn me down and i shout or react he laughs at me and says "ok i am going to bed now"

That is a 3-4 times a week ritual...so come on wtf do i do?????????????

OP posts:
Original poster
TheLadyEvenstar · 19/08/2009 12:15

Neice, I have asked him nicely this morning if he could please help me to pack up the dvds we don't watch. He said "If you give me something or take me out then i will otherwise don't ask and if you give me something i will behave".

OP posts:
juuule · 19/08/2009 12:26

Something has given him the mind-set that he won't do something without getting a reward.

Has your dp spoken to him about his attitude towards you? What does your ds say to him?

KeepPassingTheOpenWindows · 19/08/2009 12:30

Tell him quite clearly - "NO - it does not work like that sorry. You're getting grown up now, and I would appreciate your help. If you don't want to help then you can go to your room as amuse yourself for a while."

DVD doesn't go in bedroom, no tv in bedroom. He needs to learn the link between good behaviour and treats vs bad behaviour no treats. Not so much punishment, but reward for good behaviour. If he behaves badly he gets zilch, not even lots of attention. For each day that he behaves well, a reward - a pizza, the TV on, a trip out etc.

If he keeps switching the TV back on, take the plug off it. Sit there with a book and ignore him when he rants.

It must be a nightmare trying to get ds2 to sleep with all this going on. I think you have to put him to bed and tell DS1 that if wakes the baby the consequences will be XXX.

And you have to stick to this. Can you take his stuff (DVD/PS2) and leave it with a friend, telling ds that he will only get it back when he shows he deserves it? You won't be able to cave in then.

Original poster
TheLadyEvenstar · 19/08/2009 12:30

Juuule, he promises dp he will behave and help. And as i say as soon as he walks out to go to work its like he never said it because he will start.

OP posts:
Morloth · 19/08/2009 12:42

He either helps clean up the DVDs or there are no more DVDs/games for him to watch and play, for say the rest of the summer.

You tell him this straight up, if he still doesn't do as requested, you confiscate all DVDs, games and consoles and he must earn them back after the initial period you told him about.

Consistent and calm is the main thing. As for bedtime, if we ever got the stage with the fucking around coming out of his room I would lock the door from the outside. He will scream and he will yell and he will probably break things, but they are his things and I wouldn't replace them if he does so.

When DS2 goes to bed, DS1 is not allowed in his room at all. He he goes near there, or deliberately makes noise to wake him up? Straight into his room for the rest of the night, with no toys, books, games.

You need more help than AIBU can provide, you really need to find out if there are any parenting classes in your area.

MotheringHeights · 19/08/2009 12:55

"What would you do in this situation for example : I remove said dvd player from bedroom, he gets up, i take him back, he comes back, i take him back telling him to stay in his room, he gets up and bangs up the hallway disturbing ds2, i take him back, he comes back putting all lights on, i take him back telling him again to stay in his room, he comes back to living room screaming at me that i am evil, need to let him have fun, stop trying to tell him what to do, do i not realise he is a better person than everyone...and so on until eventually he sits in the living room and i end up turning the tv off for him to get up and turn it on again....until eventually when he has worn me down and i shout or react he laughs at me and says "ok i am going to bed now""

Maybe a stronger reaction earlier, perhaps that's what he's looking for. If the constant taking back to bed didn't work, but shouting did, what happens if you get cross and react after he gets up twice?

Original poster
TheLadyEvenstar · 19/08/2009 12:56

Morloth, Thanks for your advice. I asked about parenting classes and have been told so many times I am doing all the right things....thats why I get so annoyed, if I am why the hell are they not working???

OP posts:
MotheringHeights · 19/08/2009 12:57

What does your DP during the evening and night time stuff? You say he heads off early in the morning, but how does he react to the nighttime stuff? Can he handle DS1? Or sit with DS2 so that DS1's behaviour doesn't affect him so much?

MotheringHeights · 19/08/2009 12:58

Been told by who you're doing all the right things? Why would they stop you attending parenting classes if you're living with these problems?

Morloth · 19/08/2009 13:12

You two have a weird power dynamic going on. He pushes you until you react. If you react harshly (but fairly) immediately there is nowhere for him to push you too.