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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not feel any compassion for Ronnie Biggs?

175 replies

wannaBe · 07/08/2009 09:37

If he hadn't done a runner to Brazil he would have served his sentence by now and would have been out by now anyway.

The only reason he came back was to receive treatment on the nhs.

Why on earth should a man who has committed a crime, has evaded capture for 30 years be set free?

OP posts:
beanieb · 07/08/2009 14:03

there is some suggestion that Jack Mills exaggerated his injuries and the effect of those injuries because he was scared he would get in trouble for 'allowing' the train to be robbed. I am not saying this is true but I have read that it may be the case. of course we have no way of knowing. It certainly would have been in his interest to and in the interest of those passing sentence.

During the trial, the judge/court made much of the trauma and shattered nerves jack mills experienced which is I think part of the reason why the sentences were so long.

LouMacca - what is it in particular about his small part in this crime and the information about the crime which has made you think the OP is NBU?

higgle · 07/08/2009 14:04

I would just like to point out ( as someone who has practiced as a criminal defence solicitor in the past) That with the exception of the Myra Hindley type of situation most prisoners are released if they are terminally ill, with prisons relgularly arranging places in a hospice or care home, or perhaps supported lodgings. Most prisoners also know how to play the remorse card and will sign up for "offending behaviour" courses and go on and on in prison about how sorry they are etc. etc. to ensure they get parole - I can tell you it is a very different story when they are in confidential discussion with their lawyers ( who half the time are providing the information about how to play the system) It has always seemed to me illogical to release people who express remorse early because there is no way of telling if this is genuine or not.I suspect that as the train driver received his injuries from a member of the gang who was not caught those who were felt rather bitter about this. Whilst I don't feel sorry for Biggs as an individual the sentence of 30 years is way over the top in modern terms when compared to what is now handed out in murder and manslaughter cases ( which of course this is not).

filchthemildmanneredjanitor · 07/08/2009 14:08

I am not saying this is true but I have read that it may be the case. of course we have no way of knowin

so why say it?

why say that the poor man who was beaten round the head with an iron bar was exaggarating?

if your husband was beaten round the head with an iron bar during the course of their working day would you say it was just a tap on the head and of no lasting effect? would you think that the person who did should be allowed to be free after 9 years or would you want them locked up for a long time?

i know if someone did that to my husband i would want to murder thm myself.

Original poster
wannaBe · 07/08/2009 14:10

beanieb are you related to him?

Jack mills was a victim of this crime - end of. While Ronnie Biggs and his mates were all perpitrators - and it doesn't matter how "small" a part they all played - they were all part of a gang who planned to go, armed with an iron bar, and injure, perhaps kill if they had to, an innocent man in order to get their hands on the money on the train.

Ronnie Biggs was a part of the plan and the conspiracy, therefor he was as guilty as the man who weilded the iron bar.

Yes 30 years was a harsh sentence but he never served 30 years - he escaped from prison and went and lived in Brazil on the proceeds of his crime.

How people can defend what he did and downplay the suffering of his victim is beyond me.

OP posts:
abraid · 07/08/2009 14:12

[Apologies thread hijack]

BTW, edam, there was R4 programme yesterday about Peak District during WW2: bouncing bombs, 'fake' Sheffields, pretend Normandys, etc, very interesting. Did you catch?

beanieb · 07/08/2009 14:14

According to this story the robbers weren't aremed at all. I have read alternately that the train driver was hit with an axe handle or an iron bar. wish I could find original court reports.

filchthemildmanneredjanitor · 07/08/2009 14:16

when it says unarmed it means they didn't have guns-they did have iron bars and baton type sticks.

beanieb · 07/08/2009 14:16

higgle is it remorse that they must show or admitting their crime? I know there are loads of people in prisons who refuse to accept guilt because they maintain their innocence. Is there really a kind remorse clause?

BrieVanDerKamp · 07/08/2009 14:22

I don't see what all the fuss is about, he's done 10 years in all, that's more than some people do for rape, child abuse even murder in some cases.

So he took some money.......big bloody deal, there's a lot more worse people out there than him, he's not dangerous.

He's not exactly free anyway is he. They set him "free" to die, they wouldn't have done if he were able to go about his life as a healthy man.

Live and let live FFS, save your misguided hate for the scum of this world that deserve it.

beanieb · 07/08/2009 14:22

Also - I can't help thinking that this case does show a lot of class discrepency... BRUCE REYNOLDS was the mastermind of the whole thing, an antiques dealer (!!) only served ten years of a 25 year sentence.

RONALD "BUSTER" EDWARDS who is widely believed to have hit the driver served only 9 years!

if you read this you can see most of them were released after a few years, certainly not even halfway through there sentence.

Why is there so much focus on Biggs having to pay for his crimes? Sure, he escaped, and, sure, he should have been punnished but Biggs came back in 2001 so that means he's been back in custody for something like 8 years. He served a year or so before he escaped. Seems to me that he has paid for his crime for about the same amount of time the rest of the gang did. Why not release him?

beanieb · 07/08/2009 14:29

"beanieb are you related to him? "

blimey - no! not that I am aware of anyway.

I am just gobsmacked at the casual way people seem to believe that the train driver died because of the robbery. Although having searched google it is easy to see why people might think that as there's so much incorrect info out there.

Of course I have great sympathy for the train driver but I also think Justice has to be fair to everyone and 30 years IMO was a very heavy sentence for someone who was loading the van, particularly given the lighter sentences some of the other gang members were given. I think that Biggs has become some kind of tabloid/daily Mail hate figure when really his crime, though quite shocking, pales into insignificance compared to other crimes in UK History. On the other hand I think Biggs was the architect of his own downfall - if he had just stayed put in Jail and served about 10 years like the others did then perhaps he would have had an overall more comfortable life and death. No doubt he would have made it onto all sorts of chatshows, written a book, had a film made of his life starring Phil Collins and everyone would have thought him a bit of a loveable rogue.

I also just disagree with the OP and think that there's something wrong when all compassion goes out the window, and people should read around the subject and challenge what they think they know about these kinds of cases

beanieb · 07/08/2009 14:31

filchthemildmanneredjanitor

"if your husband was beaten round the head with an iron bar during the course of their working day would you say it was just a tap on the head and of no lasting effect? would you think that the person who did should be allowed to be free after 9 years or would you want them locked up for a long time?

i know if someone did that to my husband i would want to murder thm myself."

you would want to murder someone for beating up your husband

seems a bit extreme to me. I would want the culprit caught and sentenced appropriately.

kittycatty · 07/08/2009 15:07

Thats the problem though, these thugs DON'T get sentenced appropiately!

southeastastra · 07/08/2009 15:08

and this thread is on AIBU.

fgs get over yourself.

kittycatty · 07/08/2009 15:11

Victims have to live with what happened for the rest of their lives, alot of the criminals serve the time given then are back out to do it again and again.

TheLadyEvenstar · 07/08/2009 15:26

But its a sad day when we cannot even as victims show some compassion for those who are dying.

Yes criminals can and do re-offend whilst victims suffer in many ways for the rest of their lives, however 2 wrongs dont make a right. Ronnie is dying and possibly won't see his birthday tomorrow, surely that is not such a bad thing to let his family have him back for this minimal time?

kittycatty · 07/08/2009 15:32

Yes but he should of thought what would/could happen before he started commiting crimes. Criminals dont show compassion for their victims!

And yes it must be bad dying in prison, but this is what happens when you commit crimes.

BigGobMum · 07/08/2009 15:41

I would have had more compassion for him if he hadnt spent his years of freedom completely taking the p* out of the Police. It sickened me to see him on tv last night mocking the police at his 60th birthday party. He should have been left inside. Also will his son be sent back to Brazil after RB's death?

TheLadyEvenstar · 07/08/2009 16:12

Big why should his son be sent back?

BigGobMum · 07/08/2009 16:15

No reason but isnt he Brazilian by birth? Is his Mum not still there?

edam · 07/08/2009 16:20

(Abraid, no, I didn't! What was the title/what time was it on?)

beanieb · 07/08/2009 16:21

Michael Biggs is brazilian born FWIW. His mother lives in Switzerland. here

abraid · 07/08/2009 16:29

edam:

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00ltl3c/Open_Country_WWII_Secrets_of_The_Peak_District/

PeachyLaPeche · 07/08/2009 16:54

I think it as probably fair tor elease him now because release at this stage is very much a conceptualtjimng isn't it? He's hardly going out on the razz. You could argue he's in his own custody now.

However, beforehand then no, I'm another who thinks he should have served his time as and when, and that if you commit a crime then spend the next umpteen years making mockery of it, then you'd be a bit dim to expect the Government /Police / general judicialry to be on your side.

There ahs to be a penalty and that is you cannot rob people, injure them, run away take the piss and then make a few noises about dear old blightty to get let off for the crimes.

TBH If I were related to the victim i'd be seriosuly put out at all the sympathy

Blu · 07/08/2009 16:58

I have no sympathy for Ronald Biggs, and if I ever did ahve it would have evaporated after seeing foratge of him saying how he doesn't regret being a train robber because it has given him a little place in history.

However I have compassion for any dying person and think that releasing him (which basically means leaving him lying dying in bed but unguarded) might just act as an emphatic reminder about the huge gulf in morality between the sort of person who hits someone else over the head in the pursuit of greed, and the sort who doesn't.

And if you hit someone, you need to know they may die, whether you plan that or not. It is the blow that kills, not the intention.

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