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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not feel any compassion for Ronnie Biggs?

175 replies

wannaBe · 07/08/2009 09:37

If he hadn't done a runner to Brazil he would have served his sentence by now and would have been out by now anyway.

The only reason he came back was to receive treatment on the nhs.

Why on earth should a man who has committed a crime, has evaded capture for 30 years be set free?

OP posts:
edam · 07/08/2009 10:24

He was left terribly injured, however, and never worked again. (My mother linked his death to his injuries, seems she was wrong from what you say.)

MadameCastafiore · 07/08/2009 10:25

I think we all must feel a little compasion for peole who are suffering and at the end of their lives or it makes us pretty inhuman.

Biggs said that he had no regrets as his crime earned him notoriety and a decnt life in terms of wealth and his standard of living, he didn't say that he enjoyed hitting another human or hurting anyone - he wasn't the one that did that - so to class him as a murderer or a violent criminal is a bit harsh.

Stigaloid · 07/08/2009 10:26

YANBU - he is stealing from this country for a second time. it doesn't matter that he is old and infirm - he committed a crime, which contributed to the early death of an innocent man. He lived the life of Riley and then when he got sick he came back here at great expense to the tax payer to claim on medical resources he had not contributed to. Sickening. They should have booted him back to Brazil.

tobago04 · 07/08/2009 10:27

In the news they said he was going to get security guards instead,who's going to pay for that,don't get why he should be let off just because his body has got old.

beanieb · 07/08/2009 10:27

yes - he was left terribly injured. Was just that you said "But the only reason they weren't charged with murder was that the poor train driver took too long to die" but the simple fact is that none of the train robbers killed him and he didn't die from any injuries inflicted during the robbery.He didn't die from his injuries and the only reason he did die was because of an unrelated medical condition which eventually killed him.

Am not excusing the fact that whoever hit him left him unable to work and injured, that's really very sad, but I think a lot of people mistakenly think he was murdered and that's simply not the case.

beanieb · 07/08/2009 10:28

"he committed a crime, which contributed to the early death of an innocent man" Stigaloid, this is actually incorrect.

edam · 07/08/2009 10:28

Madame - he didn't regret the attack on the driver. He said so repeatedly. That puts him beyond the pale IMO.

Joint enterprise means he was as guilty as the man who coshed the driver. Refusal to express remorse makes him beneath contempt.

Original poster
wannaBe · 07/08/2009 10:28

"Biggs was no innocent - there is such a thing as joint enterprise. He chose to go with the gang, he chose to be there, and he must have known perfectly
well they were armed and dangerous." well said.

OP posts:
Original poster
wannaBe · 07/08/2009 10:30

Beanieb thirty years would have been harsh had he actually served it. But he didn't.

OP posts:
MadameCastafiore · 07/08/2009 10:31

He didn't attack the driver - how could he regret it?

beanieb · 07/08/2009 10:31

like I said, I am not defending his part in the crim nor his escape. Just think it's weird that so many people believe he was guilty of murder or contributing to a death when the facts of the case state he was not.

KingRolo · 07/08/2009 10:32

He has never expressed any remorse for the death of the driver so why should be feel anything for him?

LIZS · 07/08/2009 10:34

"In the news they said he was going to get security guards instead,who's going to pay for that" More likely the Sun, NOTW or one of the other papers which has made him into a folk hero ?

edam · 07/08/2009 10:34

Madame - if I'm with a group of people that I know are going to commit a crime, and I know full well they are prepared to use violence, then I would be guilty and share responsibility for whatever happened.

Biggs had opportunity after opportunity to say a simple 'I'm sorry about Jack Mills'. He chose not to, again and again. And only came crawling back to the UK when he needed something.

Original poster
wannaBe · 07/08/2009 10:35

erhaps he couldn't regret attacking the driver as he didn't brandish the iron bar but he could certainly regret being part of a gang who were capable of inflicting such horrific injuries on an innocent man."He didn't attack the driver - how could he regret it?" Well he was there when the driver was attacked, therefore he is complicit.

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 07/08/2009 10:36

he has shown almost sociopathic lack of emapthy

he spent his adult years in comparative comfort on the run.evading justice.only returning to seek free NHS treatment,he should have been sent to hospital wing and served sentence there

Original poster
wannaBe · 07/08/2009 10:36

oops not sure how my post became disjointed like that.

OP posts:
mayorquimby · 07/08/2009 10:37

well he's only been released to die essentially.
but i agree with the sentiment, i hate the veneration of a criminal and his portrayal as some sort of cheeky wide-boy del boy trotter who was cute enough to get one over on the government.

Stigaloid · 07/08/2009 10:39

Okay - so he committed a crime that left a man suffering constant trauma headaches until he died. He stole millions from this country, escaped, lived it up without regret and then came back to milk the medical system to which he did not contribute. Regardless of the train driver, his criminal acts do not warrant all that much compassion when he is effectively stealing from us again. There are plenty of people who have contributed to this country who could be in need of the resources and money used to finance this man. Whilst it is a reflection on British society and our compassion that we allow to care for him, we can still be angry/appalled by it.

StealthPolarBear · 07/08/2009 10:40

My DH said the OP pretty much word for word when he heard the news this morning
I'm under the impression he's going to die today or tomorrow though so for all intents and purposes I don't care - he either dies with guards or without. In principle though I disagree that he should be released because he's old and infirm.
His comment on the whole thing was along the lines of he regrets the crime but he doesn't regret leading the life he did. What exactly does that mean?

beanieb · 07/08/2009 10:42

"Beanieb thirty years would have been harsh had he actually served it. But he didn't. " I do agree. Though 30 years IS IMO harsh for the crime he committed. Having said that, if he had stayed in prison perhaps he would have got out earlier and would still have been able to live as a free man, who knows. I don't know the parole rules but I kind of vaguely think if murderers don't show remorse or admit guilt then they end up being refused parole - is that right? Seeing as he didn't actually kill anyone or injur anyone personally I do wonder why him showing remorse is so important.

scottishmummy · 07/08/2009 10:44

this notion of a wide boy geezer is misplaced he is a viccious career criminal who frankly should have seen his days out on the health care wing.as befits his prisoner status

Original poster
wannaBe · 07/08/2009 10:45

his son didn't give the impression that he was expected to die within days when he was interviewed on GMTV this morning. (and what a smug annoying individual he is).

It's pneumonia Biggs has at the moment isn't it? And although he has other health problems as has had strokes in the past, I imagine he could recover from pneumonia?

OP posts:
StealthPolarBear · 07/08/2009 10:45

yes Nancy66 and scottishmummy

StealthPolarBear · 07/08/2009 10:46

oh right. Well the clip I heard was someone (son I assume) saying they hope he lives to see his 80th tomorrow. Suppose that could have been sympathy seeking. Yes, if he's going to recover and live for months/years as a free man then that's different