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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not feel any compassion for Ronnie Biggs?

175 replies

wannaBe · 07/08/2009 09:37

If he hadn't done a runner to Brazil he would have served his sentence by now and would have been out by now anyway.

The only reason he came back was to receive treatment on the nhs.

Why on earth should a man who has committed a crime, has evaded capture for 30 years be set free?

OP posts:
Original poster
wannaBe · 07/08/2009 10:46

what sentences did the others serve?

OP posts:
TheLadyEvenstar · 07/08/2009 10:46

Why should he express remorse for the death of someone whose death he did not cause??

For those who don't know.... the train driver was hit on the head with an iron bar, causing a black eye and facial bruising. The assailant was one of two members of the gang who was never identified. Frank Williams (at the time a Detective Inspector) claims to have traced the man, but he could not be charged because of lack of evidence. Mills died in 1970 from leukaemia.

scottishmummy · 07/08/2009 10:47

beanie,remorse is central to parole as it shows empathy,reflection and understanding of the impact his criminal actions.it indicates an element of taking responsibility for one's actions

complete lack of remorse is lacking in affect and compassion for how it felt for the injured driver.demonstrating a lack of maturity

Tamarto · 07/08/2009 10:49

Jack Tweed or whatever his name is did lots worse why is he allowed to get out on jollys because his wife, not him is dying but Ronnie Biggs who actually did less should rot in jail. What a fucked up country we live in.

edam · 07/08/2009 10:49

TLE - but the train driver was left in constant pain and unable to work ever again. It wasn't just a black eye and facial bruising, that trivialises it. And don't forget they didn't have anything other than X-ray in those days, so there was no way of knowing what the brain injuries were.

As I said, my father used to visit the poor man as part of his (father's) job. He was in a very bad way indeed.

MorningTownRide · 07/08/2009 10:55

My dad was one of the policemen that turned up at the train.

His account is the same as edams father's.

All this talk of a bit of a cosh was a under exaggeration.

Of course he wouldn't show remorse. Why should he? He was living it up in Brazil

beanieb · 07/08/2009 10:55

edam, am interested in when your dad visited him - was it soon after the train robbery or when he had leukemia?

Tamarto - even I disagree with your Jack Tweed comment I don't think he did a lot worse to be honest! Biggs was still part of a gang who stole a massive amount of money, I don't think even with all he has done that Jack Tweed is as bad a criminal!

Maybe his (JT) sentencing reflects the way the criminal justice system in this country has changed over the years though?

scottishmummy · 07/08/2009 10:56

Tamarto are you trying to stick up for a violent lout by comparing him to another violent lout

the country is fucked up when there arent enough SCBU beds,oncology pts buying their own medication

i suggest you reconsider some priorities before you try the bleedin heart routine about a violent old lag

NormaSknockers · 07/08/2009 10:56

YANBU. Totally agree!

He only returned because he was ill & needed looking after, I doubt very much he would have returned otherwise.

TheLadyEvenstar · 07/08/2009 10:57

When you look at the sentences handed out today, and compare it to those of then. well I can understand him not wanting to come back sooner. People get less now for murder than he did for stealing money. Yes a man died 7 years after the attack, but Ronnie Biggs was not responsible for that. He did not weild the weapon which injured Mills in the first place.

He is an old man who deserves to be free during in his last days, he is not going to be going out partying and drinking, he is going to be in a bed in a hospital...hardly "free"

Tamarto · 07/08/2009 10:58

Stealing money isn't as bad as beating up a child imo.

Who is Ronnie a danger to? Jack Tweed has commited a similar violent offense twice now.

TheLadyEvenstar · 07/08/2009 11:00

Tamarto, I agree 100% with you.

And lets look at the bigger picture yes he commited a crime but the man is about to die...forget him for a minute, wouldn't it be nice for his family to know he died a free man,with them by his side? imho yes it would.

Tamarto · 07/08/2009 11:01

scottishmummy considering i am partaking in a thread about Ronnie Biggs not anything else, of course i don't put him above that. [hhm]

Not relevant and a really bad arguement.

beanieb · 07/08/2009 11:01

"what sentences did the others serve? "

13 of them were captured. Sentences totalling 307 years were passed on 12 men In 1969 the robbery's mastermind, Bruce Reynolds, was sentenced to 10 years in jail. Seven of the defendants - Ronald Biggs, Charles Wilson, Douglas Goody, Thomas Wisbey, Robert Welch, James Hussey and Roy James - were jailed for 30 years each.
Four were sent to prison for terms of between 20 and 25 years.Another defendant, solicitor John Wheater, 41, was sent to prison for three years. Wheater obtained the robbers hide-out - Leatherslade Farm in Bedfordshire.

MorningTownRide · 07/08/2009 11:01

No, TLE - he should not be allowed. Are all criminals allowed to go home when they are dying? No, he should not be the exeption.

scottishmummy · 07/08/2009 11:03

really?you think country is fucked up because some violent old lag is whining about his rights

i think apologists for violent criminals are fucked up

ChristieF · 07/08/2009 11:03

This is disgraceful. The issue is that you should serve the sentence you were given. He played a part (and a violent one) in the manslaughter of a man. How would you feel if that man was your father or husband. Also, pneumonia is not necessarily fatal.

TheLadyEvenstar · 07/08/2009 11:05

Christie, but he did not play the part in manslaughter. Mills died seven years after the attack of Luekemia

Tamarto · 07/08/2009 11:05

Could you point out to me where exactly i said that?

I think you are making no sense at all.

NormaSknockers · 07/08/2009 11:05

He commited a crime, so he should serve his time like everyone else. Just because he's old & dying we should let him off I think not!

Tamarto · 07/08/2009 11:06

'He played a part (and a violent one) in the manslaughter of a man'

What violent part did he play in the death of a man from lukemia did he give him it?

mayorquimby · 07/08/2009 11:06

"Yes a man died 7 years after the attack, but Ronnie Biggs was not responsible for that. He did not weild the weapon which injured Mills in the first place."

i'd agree he's not responsible for his death from unrelated matters. he is however responsible for the violent and brutal assault. he was part of a gang who made a plan to hold up a train and attacking the driver was part of that plan which Biggs signed up for. he doesn't need to be the one who wields the weapon.

edam · 07/08/2009 11:06

TLE - yes he is responsible, it was joint enterprise. No-one made him join a gang of violent robbers.

Beanie, think it would have been towards the end of Jack Mill's life - my Dad joined BR officially in '68 but had been working during summer holidays while at university, and driving on steam railways with people like Bill Hoole, so he was kind of in that world before then.

He doesn't talk much about bad stuff - has never gone into detail about this, or the time he was driving a steam engine and some dozy woman tried to beat the train over a level crossing (she was killed, obv.). Or about when he was at university and went to help at Aberfan, along with every other able-bodied male in S Wales.

My mum tells me more about it, tbh.

TheLadyEvenstar · 07/08/2009 11:09

Those of you who say he is responsible....let me just ask...

If you were out with a group of people and one of them picked up a weapon and hit someone with it....are you all responsible for the actions of one person?

Tiredmumno1 · 07/08/2009 11:09

How long did he actually spend in prison???