to not understand why so many poor people...

[nybom]

...are being called "poor" if they can afford:

• cigarettes/drugs
• dogs
• large amounts of takeaways/ready meals
• ready cut fruit, brands, air freshners and other superfluous crap, kids drinks/other products specifically tailored to kids
• to go out drinking
• FF babies
• to leave lights on, have electrical appliances on standby, not to use energy light bulbs, to keep the water running, to put on half a load of washing, to leave heating on at night
• to maintain artificial nails, to have hair extensions
• buy loads of beauty products
• to leave their car engine on whilst going shopping/standing in a traffic jam
• to have themed children's birthday parties with loads of props
• and most of all: have CREDIT cards so they can overdraw

i'm talking of regular habits not just occasional behaviour...

several of my friends are on benefits, so the observations are firsthand and not just assumptions.

a friend of mine (single mum on benefits) got a party bus for her DSs last birthday party (besides loads of presents), this year he's getting a wii (and loads of other presents). WTF?

why don't these people simply save more?

i on the other hand spend less than 100 pounds on a family of four (whilst buying high quality, fresh, organic products) by buying 50% of my shopping reduced/offers, at local markets and a lot of things (like toiletries) from pound shops or discounters. we buy value toilet paper (amongst other things); and i go to the hairdresser twice a year, and only to the beautycian for special occasions such as weddings. the children don't get any toys or clothes from us, as there are enough family and friends who don't know what to buy for christmas/birthday parties. so the kids basically don't cost us anything. we have one credit card and we make sure NEVER to overdraw because of the high interest rates.

i simply don't get it...

Yes Peachy as much as I hated living where I did , in some ways it was what I needed as the level of deprivation meant there was a lot of support. However there were too many people all needing support and I dread to think what would have happened to me without support. I can remember phoning social services to let them know I had moved into the area and to ask for some support. I was basically told that I was not a priority and that they could not help me. At the time I was fresh out of a psychiatric unit with suicidal tendencies, totally unhinged and living in a hostel. God knows what a priority case did look like.

I was lucky that I could "afford" to do voluntary work and then work for a very low wage for homestart. I could also take dd to work which meant no childcare costs. But we lived under the constant threat of having our funding cut. The organisers were also paid a criminally low wage for what they did. I was asked to become an organiser but I would have earn almost half what I went on to earn as a teacher.

I have to admit that we dont see much rural poverty here, I see some at school but that does not mean I think it does not exist.

damn forgot the pre-cut fruit

Well RIven I am outraged, I work full time and cannot afford a takeaway. I am writing a letter to the Daily Mail right now.

i cut some fruit myself yesterday and froze it. to give the illusion of being super-poor. and because it was going out of date.
lucky ladies having barbeques.should be out having an indian,but possible swine flu.

Given the interesting discussions you are having on here about the intergenerational aspects of poverty/worklessness and poor lifestyle choices, you may be interested in this link:

www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=303

Nottingham is now an 'Early Intervention' City, which just as it sounds means intervening very early in the lives of vulnerable teenagers to stop them getting ptregnant/becoming fathers - or if they do, to better support them to bring up their children whilst building a better life for themselves.

ElieRM...Total sense from you IMO and in DP'S opinion too.I showed him your posts.Like a breath of fresh air and sense of telief to know others think the same

Thank you Doobydoo!

Doobydoo's partner here. I agree totally with ElieRM's comments. The whole point of Thatcher/Reagan policy was to divide and conquer the working class. Break the unions, sell council houses (those that bought then encouraged to consider themselves middle class as now have a 'stake' in society. Those that can not or will not then become the 'underclass'.

This fuels the so called property boom and leads to massive profits for banks and directly to the credit crunch.

Policiies were taken from the Chigago Business School after being tried out on whole countries in South and Central America and shown to increase poverty and division of wealth.

that's interesting about Nottingham - quick search reveals that Nottingham has one of the areas that was targeted in the NDC funding (about to come to and end - not half way through as I previously said >>>)

DP's 1st ever post and he is threadkiller
...As you were

Hi everybody,

I am nybom?s husband. As I understand her views and ? honestly speaking ? wouldn?t really understand her thread if I didn?t know her, I thought it would be a good idea to clarify a couple of things ? if I may.
First of all: We get Child Benefit, my wife got that mixed up.

Also: Our two little boys get adequate clothing and have plenty of great toys ? maybe not as many toys as some of their friends but when we see that they can spend hours and hours with an empty card board box totally disregarding the actual content, it shows to us that it is not the quantity of toys that is important, but the variety.

What nybom is really trying to discuss is irresponsible behaviour. Unfortunately, as expressed by nearly everybody here, she didn?t get that across at all.

What she (and I) find difficult to understand are for example

• people who spend money on cigarettes, alcohol or any other luxuries, but claim to be too skint to buy their children healthy and nutritious food.

• people who claim to be skint and don?t even try to find alternative supermarkets to M&S & Co. despite Asda & Co. being around the corner.

• people who leave the engine of their car running for 20 minutes while their partner is shopping at Tesco ? which has got nothing to do with being rich or poor at all, or

• people who max out their credit cards just because they can (not because they have to!!!).

I know that haven?t addressed all comments my wife or anybody else made on this thread, but hopefully it gives a slightly better understanding of what she is on about.

Now if you think all of this is none of our business ? fair enough. But we think and talk about these issues from time to time as they concern us as a couple of our friends show such behaviour.

I think that we are very fortunate to be able to put money in the pension scheme and pay a mortgage. But I realise that my luck could come to an abrupt end tomorrow and we could be living on benefits in the future. Therefore I am doing my very best now to prevent this from happening and make sure that what I do today is sustainable in the future.

Have a nice weekend everybody!

fttfuture-

I can't really help comparing the poverty oin the third world to the poverty here. It had a profound effect on me. It really did mess my head yup for years. My parent's modest semi felt like a palace on my return.

I am aware however, that as the uk has a higher ''standard'' of living then we need to be earning more to be considered rich.

posh - I lived in Zimbabwe for 2 1/2yrs - so I also know first hand 3rd world poverty.

As I mentioned - my IL's - FIL in particular has made it very clear that he understands that we are poor so doesn't want us to spend any money on taking him places while he's staying.

This is a man who has nothing in comparison to what we have here, a man who lives "comfortably" (by Zimbabwean standards) in what most in the UK would consider extreme poverty.

While 3rd world poverty is horrendous, you simply cannot compare 1st world and 3rd world poverty and expect to have a reasoned debate about poverty in the UK.

Elie how super-poor could you be if you had knives to cut, and a freezer to freeze, your dated fruit with?

had to smile at FC and the low paid Organiser job- wher I came from (Bridgwater) it was quite the little nice job on Council rates LOL

Surey as long as peopleare making a choice betwen food and heat, then there is a very real lvel of poverty in a country where one can die of hypothermia?

It's not as severe as many places obv, but it happens.

'By nybomshusband on Sat 08-Aug-09 20:25:20'

expat- havr doubts too..

why don't you ask the several of your friends on benefits im sure they'll be more than happy to lamp sorry enlighten you

Exactly, Elie, especially as, amazingly, he writes in exactly the same style.

same here

Defintiely wortha sking- maybe you'll get a few budgeting tips?

here is how I afforded the spending money for our holiday this year:

DH and I having no clothes, haircuts, treats,debts for six momnths mainly. Thanks heavens for a lack of babysitters, doesn't half free up your evenings for the purpose of saving!