to not understand why so many poor people...

[nybom]

...are being called "poor" if they can afford:

• cigarettes/drugs
• dogs
• large amounts of takeaways/ready meals
• ready cut fruit, brands, air freshners and other superfluous crap, kids drinks/other products specifically tailored to kids
• to go out drinking
• FF babies
• to leave lights on, have electrical appliances on standby, not to use energy light bulbs, to keep the water running, to put on half a load of washing, to leave heating on at night
• to maintain artificial nails, to have hair extensions
• buy loads of beauty products
• to leave their car engine on whilst going shopping/standing in a traffic jam
• to have themed children's birthday parties with loads of props
• and most of all: have CREDIT cards so they can overdraw

i'm talking of regular habits not just occasional behaviour...

several of my friends are on benefits, so the observations are firsthand and not just assumptions.

a friend of mine (single mum on benefits) got a party bus for her DSs last birthday party (besides loads of presents), this year he's getting a wii (and loads of other presents). WTF?

why don't these people simply save more?

i on the other hand spend less than 100 pounds on a family of four (whilst buying high quality, fresh, organic products) by buying 50% of my shopping reduced/offers, at local markets and a lot of things (like toiletries) from pound shops or discounters. we buy value toilet paper (amongst other things); and i go to the hairdresser twice a year, and only to the beautycian for special occasions such as weddings. the children don't get any toys or clothes from us, as there are enough family and friends who don't know what to buy for christmas/birthday parties. so the kids basically don't cost us anything. we have one credit card and we make sure NEVER to overdraw because of the high interest rates.

i simply don't get it...

Riven - yes I did see the loan shark story and it is the grim reality for many people.

At the organisation where I am a volunteer we work with police and local trading standards to try and give people alternatives to loan sharks either by giving small loans ourselves, getting people access to DSS money they are entitled to, charity resources such as recycled furniture, and debt counselling. We never turn anyone away even if we cannot give a loan ourselves.

There are people who have not worked for years who could and also families with generation after gnertaion of benefit depedency but the complexity of the problem needs root and branch reform of our social welfar, tax and benefit system.

There are many poor people who are poor through no fault of their own just circumstance and bad luck. There are a few who are 'benefits scroungers' but most really have no option but to live that way.

And it is not just "sharks" - there are organisations that still offer credit to people who have no chance of paying it back, and their standard APR is 30%+. Whilst I understand the argument that people should take responsibility, some patently can't and there should be better regulation.
ABD I wish there was an organisation like yours around here.

Absolutely expat, noone would disagree.

clemette - there are perfectly legal licenced lenders who are quoted on the stock market like Provident who charge 254.5% APR on personal loans.

Many of the people I work with have loans from Provident and other similar lenders. We often refinance them at far far lower rates which puts people in a much better financial position and we make some money too.

Provident was who I meant but I wasn't sure if I could name them. Bastards.

My sister thinks they're wonderful because:

(i) They are the only company who have "helped" her when she needed it.

(ii) When a reasonable amount is paid off they're always very forthcoming with an offer to lend her some more.

She doesn't know what one per cent of a hundred is, so that outrageous APR means nothing to her.

Bastards indeed

ridiculous thread. what does it matter what other people are doing anyway? If only we all concentrated more on our own lives and our own families rather than worrying about what other people are doing. Who cares what other people are spending their money on?

i'm so happy i found this thread ,i cant afford to go out today as my benifits have run out, as i spent it all on pre cut fruit for my poor children

Well I sent off for three application packs today (my PC can't read the online forms, too old).

Bet I know the outcomes already- I'm sorry mrs P, your application was buried under severral hundred others, no chance.

But I can't live off CA- we looked at HB and CTB but can't claim HB (would lose house- rented) and whilst we've applied for CTB and free school meals our docs are in a waiting list of 3 - 4months for process, during which obviosly we need to pay our rent!

We've still got the drag ends of dh's redundancy but they wrere only paid stat minimum (even then they tried to get out of that and claimed PC failure) so it won't last long.

I will of course be desperately over qualified for all 3 jobs, but want to be able to bring some money in and hope it's only for a year before I can sytart the end of my training- that depends in the main though on what happens at my upcoming eyesight test, my licence is borderline. Not a lot I can do about that though.

pre cut fruit tastes nasty and oxidised LOL

Yes, my optimum earnings as a graduate with charity management experience were indeed £53.10 pw PMSl

Another Provident borrower here, and numerous pay day loans and other high risk debts (they see me as the high risk, obviously), all to try and keep going, no luxuries whatsoever except for the cigs, no clothes, shoes, holidays, meals out, cinema, and all because father of DD claimed he earned £60/wk as a London black cab driver and CSA awarded me £20/month until DD was 16, so I've borrowed and re-borrowed to try and keep me and DD going in mortgaged house, I work full-time days but think I need to be working nights too at this rate, until you've been in a desperate situation, relentlessly, you truly cannot understand how it erodes at everything, self-esteem, confidence, the will to live, it eats you up because it never lets up.

clemette/serajen - what Provident and other similar lenders do is perfectly legal. They do what they do, and do they it well for people with no access to credit elsewhere. I make no criticism of them. They make very risky loans and charge interest accordingly.

There are though cheaper forms of finance accessible to many people though even if you have a less than good credit record. You should try your local Credit Union for lower cost loans. Most cities and many other towns have one. They are not for profit organisations but still run commecially like a small building society. Some Credit Unions will ask you to save for a while, others only accept members from certain industries or trade unions or certain cities (the so caled 'common bond'). Others will make loans straight away for limited amounts until you have built up a credit record with them.

Look at the ABCUL website to see where your local Credt Union is located.

ask at your local children's centre about credit union

it really is worth it

Riven - which 'rich' people get holidays clothes and money 'thrown' at them for free?

Thanks ABD and Greensleeves, we are at the mercy of high interest lenders and it's a cycle that's difficult to break free from, baring a Lottery win!

Sorry, forgot to add: After all, I thought the whole point of the last 26 pages was to convince OP that she shouldn't indulge in dangerous blinkered stereotypes and assumptions about people based on the perceived income and lifestyle. Or like so many things in life, (and on MN) is that a one way street?

'Riven - which 'rich' people get holidays clothes and money 'thrown' at them for free?'

Many MPs took tens of thousands of taxpayer moneys for junkets like this without a backwards glance.

Plenty of bank bosses took golden handshakes of millions in taxpayer bailouts without an ounce of compunction.

But single mums and people on benefits are the real scum?

TiggyR, the rich and famous (so obsessed are we with them) seem to have everything thrown at them, one of 'them', don't ask me who as I pay very little attention, recently said she was staggered at how much stuff was in her 'goodie bag' at some do, all smacks of the money-grabbing, consumerist society that keeps this selfish world spinning, at least to those with privileges, I work for a developing world organisation, we help communities to become independent, providing sanitation, schooling, health education, etc. I know it's always been said, but never before has the divide between rich and poor been so great. Come the revolution!

Tell me, and I mean this in a non confrontational way, why when people moan about their neighbour claiming benefits but not being in poverty or needy do people then talk about bankers? Surely it's a matter of people you can actually see cheating the system? Of course fat cats are scum and part of all that is wrong with the ever more shitty country of ours, but benefit scroungers (not needy people) who squander money are awful. It's part of this 'everything for nothing' culture we live in, the Xfactor time scale everyone wants.

In China everyone saves because there is no government help, not that we want that for Britain, and life sure is cheap where nothing is free. There has to be a balance though. Let's treat our elderly, people with disabililties and their carers, people with mental health or health issues (or posher PAs!) to a better life than they have now. Not interviewing people like criminals for the sake of a few pounds and start making people who can work, work. Ensure that if a single parent wants to stay at home and look after their dcs that the other parent can and does support them.

Well, posie, because these bankers cheated the system in an even bigger way than benefits claimant, yet somehow it's all about some of the most vulnerable people in our society, the children of a parent who's abandoned them to the mercy of the state, who's made out to be scum and deserving of punishment by proxy by heaping it onto their remaining parent.

And, as pointed out, there's no way of knowing how one's neighbour who claims benefits yet doesn't appear poor enough for one's taste is getting hold of merchandise - credit, gifts, etc. are all possibilities.