to not understand why so many poor people...

[nybom]

...are being called "poor" if they can afford:

• cigarettes/drugs
• dogs
• large amounts of takeaways/ready meals
• ready cut fruit, brands, air freshners and other superfluous crap, kids drinks/other products specifically tailored to kids
• to go out drinking
• FF babies
• to leave lights on, have electrical appliances on standby, not to use energy light bulbs, to keep the water running, to put on half a load of washing, to leave heating on at night
• to maintain artificial nails, to have hair extensions
• buy loads of beauty products
• to leave their car engine on whilst going shopping/standing in a traffic jam
• to have themed children's birthday parties with loads of props
• and most of all: have CREDIT cards so they can overdraw

i'm talking of regular habits not just occasional behaviour...

several of my friends are on benefits, so the observations are firsthand and not just assumptions.

a friend of mine (single mum on benefits) got a party bus for her DSs last birthday party (besides loads of presents), this year he's getting a wii (and loads of other presents). WTF?

why don't these people simply save more?

i on the other hand spend less than 100 pounds on a family of four (whilst buying high quality, fresh, organic products) by buying 50% of my shopping reduced/offers, at local markets and a lot of things (like toiletries) from pound shops or discounters. we buy value toilet paper (amongst other things); and i go to the hairdresser twice a year, and only to the beautycian for special occasions such as weddings. the children don't get any toys or clothes from us, as there are enough family and friends who don't know what to buy for christmas/birthday parties. so the kids basically don't cost us anything. we have one credit card and we make sure NEVER to overdraw because of the high interest rates.

i simply don't get it...

JustWannaSay, they'd have had to be working in order to get a mortgage so that they could buy under the scheme. So not claiming just benefits.
And ex-Local Authority/Council houses tend to be cheaper to buy than other houses. A lot are not in areas that many people want to live in.
I do understand what you are saying, though.

oops dont know how that happened

justwannasay - coucil houses are not offered at a lower price to people on lower incomes, they are valued at market price, the buyer can then get a discount on the value depending on how long they have been a tenant, its something like 1% per year you have paid rent, and the highest discount you can get is 26% but you would have to have been a tenant for a long time to recieve that

'But as a worker who does not qualify for any benefits, I wouldn't qualify for such a helping hand, I have to pay full price for my house' They are not being given a helping hand , they are not getting houses on the cheap, and to get a mortgage they would have to be working, the right to buy scheme is not a benefit

does anybody think that, to some extent, benefits should/do enable and entitle individuals not only to feed, clothe and house themselves and their dependents but also to allow them financial freedom and the right to make choices on an equal basis to those that work (in the formal sense) for their income?

?To me this is what this is about and i am not comfortable with the attitude that those genuinely in need of state benefit must accept that because tax payers are keeping them then they forfeit all rights to choose how they live and spend.

VInegartits is right - my parents got the maximum discount to buy their council house, but both had been council tenants, seperately and together for many years. They didn't buy until they were in their early 40's, much later than many people they knew, and therefore will still be paying a mortgage into their sixties - whilst they have some friends who have already cleared theirs.

Also the point of the discount is that it is offered to people who CAN'T pay full price for their house, and would often have no chance of every buying without it.

well I'm not forfetign my rights Hobb - in fact I'm about to pop to Morrisons to do a shop - and get my weekly pack of baccy - a day early - but I have a good excuse..........

• Riven you didn't!!!!! quick - who do we report Riven to for buying a chocolate bar???

(one of the) Problem(s) with the right to buy is that poor people who have ended up in rented accommodation don't get the same help. They can rent for all their life and still not get help with buying a house.

It totally defeats the object of social housing.If you become more financially solvent and can afford a mortgage you should buy privately and allow the property to be used for someone truly in need.i don't understand why they get a huge discount if they are working.there are many people who pay rent privately for years and then buy and the amount they have paid in rent isn't taken into account.We lived in an ex local authority flat for a few years and there were bungalows opposite which one of the old codgers loved to brag about how he was selling it for 370k and moving to spain and he had only paid about 70k for it a few years earlier.makes my blood boil when so many homeless

I think justwannasay might be confusing aspects of the keyworkers housing scheme with the right to buy scheme for council tenants.

I agree with hobgoblin; I'm quite uncomfortable with the idea that it's OK to dictate what people on benefits spend their money on. They get a finite amount of money (and its not exactly generous in the vast majority of cases) and should be able to make decisions about how they spend that money. After all, it becomes their money when it goes into their bank account (or should my employer be allowed to decide how I spend my salary?). If people want to buy some ready cut fruit with their money, I don't see that it's any of my business.

I agree FAQ - and right to buy normally only applies to council / local authority properties, not Housing Association - so I will not ever be able to buy my flat. Many councils don't build their own housing stock anymore either - they do it in partnership with local Housing associations, and offer some of the properties as part buy, part rent, which is not a perfect system either.

Ok, conceed that it's not strictly a benefit. All I'm trying to say is that not just anyone qualifies to live in a council house. The list is only for people on lower incomes (or benefits). So for those people who do qualify as they have declared a low income, how come they (some, not all of them) can afford a brand new car and weekly fag spend of about £50 when I can't?

That's all I'm saying. Some people use benefits/council housing/other schemes because they need to, and that is who these schemes are there for, and of course that is the whole point of them so no-one begrudges that.

It is the people who just sit back with their big screen tellies who expect to be looked after (them and their kids) without ever lifting a finger.

And we all know they are out there! It's only them that are being talked about here, not the genuine people who really are in need of the system (and in this day and age, let's be honest, it could happen to any of us...)

nybom - I work in a charity with a lot of 'poor' people. Yes, I DO notice a lot of the things you mention. I know exactly what poor people spend their money on because I am responsible for deciding whether people get small loans from us. I see their bank statements and credit records.

My observation is that some poor people are bad at manging their money, overspend on non essential items and yes am amazed how may have Sky TV when they could get FreeView or even FreeSat. A lot spend money on alcohol and gambling, buy a car they do not need, a lot of money at Xmas, holidays, etc. These are all things that well of people do as well. There are also a lot of apparently well off people who are also deeply in debt and living a lie.

What I always keep in my mind though as I sit in judgement over whether these poor people get a loan (or not) is that many have a poor educational background, come from very deprived childhoods, have human frailty as all of us do and actually live hand to mouth most of the time. Poverty is a grinding existence and it is natural that people in that circumstance should want pleasure in life.

I am well off and am careful not to 'judge' what people do with their lives. I only judge whether people can afford to take a loan.

but they're out there in such small numbers in comparison to the millions who claim genuinely and don't want to be in that situation are they really worth a thread about them???

Not everyone who lives in a council house is on benefits/on a low income. Anyone can put their name down for a council house. Given the drastic shortages in most (all) areas, you're unlikely to ever get anywhere near the top of the list unless your circumstances are unimaginably dire (or you're willing to take the housing that everyone else rejects), but you're perfectly entitled to rent your house from the council if you can get one.

we considered freeview a few years ago - problem was that it would have cost us nearly £150 to have it as we needed the extra dish (or whatever it was) in the attic/roof (can't remember details) to get the picutres....couldn't afford that in one go.

However - I do agree with what Abetadad says. He is a wise one

Hi OP

IMHO poor people are usually poor because they have no self control. They can't stop themselves from paying £2.75 for a packet of twisty cheese strings because they are dazzled by the packaging and the amazing twistiness of it all.

Lack of self control is the same reason they dropped out of school at 15

"IMHO poor people are usually poor because they have no self control."

oh fuck off to the real world.