to tell off a child that is not my own?

[Sheeta]

It was raining this afternoon so went to the soft play centre.

DS is 20mo and was playing in one of those little tikes plastic cars. Older boy (about 5?) smashes into him and yells 'GET OUT OF THE WAY' in quite a horrible way (properly yelling). Scared DS quite a lot and he started crying.

I just said 'please don't talk to him like that, it's not very nice'

The Mum tells me off, asking me not to tell off her son. I point out that maybe she should have said something first.

Was I out of order? If you think I was, please tell me. I have never thought twice about asking another child to be careful/not walk backwards/don't hit etc. I understand that some people might not like it, but I just assumed that the Mum hadn't seen it happen (as it was she was right there, watching. she just ignored it )

Well?

Since reading the original post, my DS was told off by the way. He accidently leaned on the glass at a museum and set off the alarms!

I had told him not to touch the exhibits but not mentioned the glass, and the alarms ring elsewhere so we couldn't hear them, so I did feel sorry for him as neither of us had any idea he was doing anything wrong. He was quite upset and it really put him off the place as I'd just been told off for leaving the pram in the wrong place.

But you know, that's life. The museum guard had to tell us off. She just said "please ask your son not to lean on the glass, it's setting off the alarms". Nothing wrong with that, and it was her job to say it. I think you were doing your job with what you said too and that would you said was pretty similar.

Some things are not OK - scaring small kids, setting off alarms. It has to be expected that the people who notice will deal with them.

yes, ignorant. that's me.

grr.

Smallwhitecat - I don't think anyone means to be ignorant. In the case of the op, she had no idea that the child had an ASD. Like you would protect your child, she just wants to protect hers. Of course I can see how it makes your life difficult when you are trying to teach your child in a way that works for him, but the op can only be responsible for her child.

In this particular situation, the mother should have been right there and ready to deal with the child in the way that she deals with his behaviour. BUT - I also know that it isn't that easy and all parents get stressed at times and aren't always 100% on guard, 100% of the time and also that parents of children with a SN quite often have to think about a great deal more!

I do have an understanding of autism as well so not totally coming from a point of ignorance. I have a nephew with Aspergers and one with 'Aspergers traits', as well as other children in my family on the spectrum.

Op - it doesn't sound like you were unreasonable at all. You couldn't have known that the child had an ASD and it sounds as though you spoke to him in the same manner you would speak to your own child if they did something you didn't agree with.

Too right, I would tell somebodys child off if they were being nasty or causing physcial harm to my dd who is a very small 2.5 year old and cannot defend herself. I would not be aggressive as that is not the answer, but tell the child that it is not a nice thing to do, and they would not like it if that happened to them.

All too often parents treat their child as little angles who can do no wrong and as a result the child grows up thinking that they are untouchable. We live in a cotton wool society where children know their rights but not their responsibilities,we are not allowed to smack or raise our voices at them. Equally if my dd was not very nice to another child, i would be quick enough to tell them off.

hurrah - not only has a post of mine made discussion of the day, but also prompted the phrase 'cotton wool society'

I am very proud

the Mama Tiger thing definitely reared it's ugly head when this boy crashed into mine of course, but that's natural. I spoke to the boy quite gently (actually much more gently than I would do my own!)

poor boy did look scared though.. i couldn't have known he was autistic, which is exactly why the mum should have been on the ball. If she looked away for a minute then fine, we all so sometimes but don't get why she used his condition as an excuse.

How on earth is saying, "Please don't do that" a 'talking to' or 'interfering?'

FFS, you make it sound like she went and gave the child a right bollocking. She didn't, she just asked him to please not upset her own child.

If the child was so sensitive that saying this to him would be a major setback, then he should either have not been in public interacting with other children or he should have been closely supervised.

I agree that the op would have been unreasonable if she had been nasty to the child but she was not and not to know.

I can also see how the approach can be counterproductive to the parent of the child's approach to her child's discipline as there may be good reason why she is discipling him in a different way from the way most parents would. But she should have stepped in and even if she had missed the chance to deal with the child in the way she knew would work for him, I think maybe the best thing to do would have been to apologise to the OP and explain the situation so that she understood. I don't think she should have been angry at the op. But none of us are perfect and the lady may have had one hell of a day, as others have said! I know I have been stroppy with people on occassions (maybe more than 'on occassions')!

A slightly similar situation happened a couple of months ago. My sister was with my twin nephews at a leisure centre. They are 12. A boy of about 5 who had been very noisy up to that point and was with his very warn out looking mother, ran up and pinched one of them quite hard. Obviously the child was much smaller than my nephews and they have always both been great with smaller kids anyway. It did hurt though and they both kind of just looked a bit shocked and taken aback by the whole situation. The mother ran straight over and apologised to my sister. She explained that she was really sorry for his behaviour and explained that he is autistic. No harm was done, as I said my nephews were much bigger than him anyway and my sister has had her fair share of problems bringing up two twin boys up to now so wouldn't judge, but the explanation for many I think would make a difference and would help with understanding.

As it happened (bit of a side issue), that situation happened the week that my nephews had been to see the consultant and one had been diagnosed with Aspergers and the other told he had Aspergers traits. So my sister ended up having a chat to the lady and explaining about my nephews and they exchanged numbers. One of those weird timing things that actually sort of happened at a good time!

Smallwhitecat i do understand what you are saying and I agree that interfering can make behaviour worse.

If the chid really was autistic then the behaviour that needs dealing with is the mothers. If she doesnt want other mums to tell him off then she should follow him all the time and deal with it immediately if not before it happens (yes really, you can see it coming much of the time).

I dont understand how you can say the op was wrong to get involved tho, whether ot not the child has sautism they do not have the right to go around hurting or upsetting other children and need to learn that in whatever way works. Leaving them to carry on will never teach them not to behave like that.

My ds is austistic and yes its hard work but I would never take him out and not look after him properly

This thread has reeeeeeally long posts on.

The answer is no. YANBU. But don't be arsey. Your perfect 20 month old will be an obnoxious 5 year old one day.

"I'm aware that the OP couldn't tell the child had autism. To me, reading the OP my first thought was "bet that child has an ASD" - shouting like that at a much younger child is very suggestive of a child with limited empathy. But that's because I know about it"

Thank you, smallwhitecat... that makes a lot more sense now. i never initially would have considered it because i'm not really knowledgable of ASD, but, like I said in a previous post, I would do now.

Peas... calm please/ I'm dreading what he will be like in years to come. He's only just discovering the delights of disobedience. He's only just started shaking his head and refusing.

I'm sure it'll be a delightful day when he goes up to a girl in the playground and pushes her down..

Smallwhitecat, just to clarify I wasn't saying the child shouldn't be in public.

The problem is by being out in public, you will have to interact with other people. So both mother and child need to learn coping mechanisms for any reasonable interaction that might occur.

And sorry but what OP said is entirely reasonable. It wasn't interfering - the child initiated the interaction and the OP responded appropriately. If the child was to be irrevocably damaged by this interaction, the mother should have prevented it happening.

Smallwhitecat, just to clarify I wasn't saying the child shouldn't be in public.

The problem is by being out in public, you will have to interact with other people. So both mother and child need to learn coping mechanisms for any reasonable interaction that might occur.

And sorry but what OP said is entirely reasonable. It wasn't interfering - the child initiated the interaction and the OP responded appropriately. If the child was to be irrevocably damaged by this interaction, the mother should have prevented it happening.

OK

I have read all the posts on here and have found that although they start off rarely mild and unoffensive we then digress to people making judgemental and borderline nasty comments...

smallwhitecat - you are one of those people. For someone who doesn't want people to judge her son you are doing a lot of judging yourself on people who don't understand autism, also towards people who don't agree 100% with you, also towards people that are not able to know instantly upon looking at a child thinking "aaaah wait - that child has autism....better stay away and ket him carry until his mum comes to stop him flourishing his fists and shoulders at my daughter/son.

I wonder....if an older child was shoulder barging your son out of the way and to the ground whether you would step in and say something to the offending child or whether you would sit there and allow your son to be treated in such a manner?

OP - I wholeheartedly agree with you. YANBU and would definitely have done the same myself as I don't like seeing bruises on my children. Likewise - if anyone catches my children doing something unkind and I have missed it - please reprimand them for it.Often I find a strangers telling off can be more of a wake up call to some children.

Sorry for waffling - and I'm sorry it's a little strongly worded-it's very out of character for me but I felt like I had to add my opinion.

My 14 year old son has Aspergers.
I am a teacher with a specific interest in ASCs.
Some Aspies weep and flap and panic in stressful situations, some have a right hook to die for and no understanding of age differences. My son was one of the latter when younger. I have helped him socialise over the years and the process is ongoing, but has required a lot of monitoring and pre-emptive intervention by me.
The OP spoke to the child, not shouted or yelled.
She didn't blame him or accuse him, or touch him.
I don't feel you are doing children on the spectrum any favours with the general public by being so unwilling to accept that if our children are to be able to function in society, then they have to become aware of how their behaviour is perceived.
The child's mother should have been on the ball about her son and his actions and intervened before it became an issue.
I am still my son's interpreter of the world in many instances, but now instead of having a meltdown, he saves up his questions and asks me to explain what and why and how.
Mine no longer hits people as a first choice, but that has taken almost a decade to work through and it is still his first response when afraid or over-stressed.
And as the rest of you can see now, there is no true consensus on the SN boards either!

Well autism is a huge thing and there's no one way to deal with it. I agree with much of what smallwhitecat has said. If my son (severely autistic, aged 10 non-verbal) had bashed into a toddler he wouldn't even have noticed the child tbh. I wouldn't care if someone told him off quietly, he wouldn't notice, but if someone shrieked at him I would be cross because he loves people shouting at him and you would have just made him more likely to repeat the behaviour, which I would be left to deal with.

He'll never have acceptable behaviour in public - no matter how much teaching I do - just want to make the point that sometimes with autism there is no magic wand, and hard work won't just make it all OK and produce a child or adult that is socially acceptable. We work bloody bloody hard to contain ds1's behaviour, but we're not miracle workers.

just want to make the point that sometimes with autism there is no magic wand, and hard work won't just make it all OK and produce a child or adult that is socially acceptable

No Magic Wand?
Bum.

No, but if there was my first use would be to use it to stop ds1 sniffing people's arses .

Mine has no understanding of why other people break rules. So he will point out infringements of litter dropping, inappropriate parking, smoking in general, dogs off the leash or in play areas...
Loudly, in a monotone and often in their personal space.
Fortunately he is now big enough and scary enough for them to not want to pick a fight, and I'm small enough to hide behind him.

just to add my opinion!

I would always say something to another child who was hurting mine and their parents had not stepped in to say something. (and I mean saying "thats not kind" or something and not shouting).
Not only does that child need to know their actions are not acceptable but mine also need to know that NO ONE has the right to hit/push/kick/bite them or be mean in any other way, just as i expect them not to do it to others.
If another parent had to tell mine off (kindly, (shouting would be a different matter))then i would be most appologetic to that parent and deal with the situation.
I realise that having an autistic child must be incredibly hard work and they may not appreciate the consequences of their actions but all that mother had to do was move her child away.

p.s i do not think it is too much to ask for parents to keep an eye on their little darlings whilst in the soft play and keep them out of the under 3's area if they are older.