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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to have lied to ds1

132 replies

TheLadyEvenstar · 20/07/2009 21:15

Ok bit of background but keeping it brief as poss as I am trying to settle ds2.

Basically he is forever telling silly lies to me over everything. He has been totally ignorant uncooperative, rude, bolshy and naughty for 3 days solid. Last night screaming at me "If i had some decent family member to go to I would and would leave this home as I hate you and you are nothing to me" I tried to ignore it and put him in his bedroom before i said anything in return iyswim?

ANYWAY he was meant to be going to cinema tomorrow with a friend. I phoned friends mum and told her he would not be going because of his behaviour, as far as I was concerned that was the end of it. However today he has been just the same, my mum bought the HP film on dvd today as she knows I will never get to the cinema as ds2 won't stay with anyone. Well ds1 has been a brat so and so all day and I happened to ask him to load the dishwasher so he asked to watch the HP dvd. I said yes and once he had done dishwasher i told him he was not watching it. Cue him telling me i was evil....but i wasn't being, not really, i just wanted him to understand what it is like to be lied to when you are asking someone to do something and they promise you they will.

OP posts:
ingles2 · 20/07/2009 23:11

I think I agree with with SRP... Because he is so able, he feels he is able to get one over on you. It's bullying/controlling behaviour really and interesting that it's only directed at you.
I think you are going to have to really restrict him, go backwards and treat him more like a younger child for a while. explain that despite being really clever at some things, he seems to have not paid attention to the not lying/not being rude or naughty sections of childhood and you need to deal with them now.
You'll have to be really strong and definite about his behaviour for a while though. Immediate removal of playstation/ds or grounding and then stick to it for behaviour you don't like

slowreadingprogress · 20/07/2009 23:13

Anything happen at 5? Anything he went through that you can put your finger on? I dunno...

I realise you were stuck, of course; but by the same token maybe you can just relax a bit about that particular incident, bearing in mind that you do know he has issues and you did ask him to do something where he had the opportunity to be a pest. Not that it makes it excusable for him to do it, just that in that exceptional situation you had no option and he was likely to be naughty because of it.

When you and ds2 are ill is clearly not the time to deal with ds1 but the rest of the time, I reckon my approach would simply have to make a difference!

ingles2 · 20/07/2009 23:13

x posts... blimey, he's really manipulating you TLE... time to get tough I think.

filchthemildmanneredjanitor · 20/07/2009 23:14

i hate to say this ladyevenstar but i did say a very long time ago that perhaps your 'methods' with him were not perhaps the wisest but you strongly disagreed.

do you not think that the fact that he has been treated like an adult since he was tiny may have something to do with his attitude?

slowreadingprogress · 20/07/2009 23:15

sorry - am being totally dim. Why did he have to come off trampoline?

ingles2 · 20/07/2009 23:21

TLE wanted him to get off because he has RAS and was feeling he could pass out.
I don't know any of your background TLE, but MMj's post doesn't come as a surprise to me.
From what you've said on this thread, I was thinking he has adopted a kind of adult relationship with you albeit a childlike, controlling one which is why I suggested you go backwards.
Is this the case do you think?

Original poster
TheLadyEvenstar · 20/07/2009 23:22

Filch OK OK I agree!!!!!!!! now help me please!!!!!!!!! guess what ds2 is still VERY much a baby at 21m lmao [poking tongue out emotican]

Slow he said he felt like he was going to pass out so i asked him to get off cue crying stropping and denying what he said.

when he was 5 my dad died and he was the only real male role model in his life iyswim?

So far this weekend (since friday to today) he has lost

laptop
mp3 player
ps2
trip to cinema
ear piercing
trip swimming
and
watching HP dvd

OP posts:
filchthemildmanneredjanitor · 20/07/2009 23:23

ingles-ladyeven has right from the start of her sons life treated him as a friend rather than as her child. he has been told the truth about everything regardless of whether or not that truth is appropriate for a child, he has spoken to as an adult and had weight put on his shoulders that should never have been there.

i am sorry to be harsh le but it's true. completely true and now you need to find a way of undoing all that.

Original poster
TheLadyEvenstar · 20/07/2009 23:26

Ingles, when i was a single parent i took him everywhere i went, restaurants, pubs, barges, museums, picnics,festivals, but all these things were done with adults and no children. he was activly encouraged to join in conversations by my friends. And when we see them now they still do the same, in fact i have kind of cut contact with them for this reason. As i stopped treating him like a mini man when he was 6 or 7. But his behaviour changed before that.

OP posts:
slowreadingprogress · 20/07/2009 23:27

agree with ingles. 'Going backwards' seems to me a good way to put it, in terms of the freedom he is allowed etc

ok re the trampoline, the crying and stropping you just have to face down - as the parent, you have taken the decision he needs to get off for his safety; of course he's not going to like it unless you're able to have a chat with him and come to that decision together/move him along to the next activity to distract him. If you can't get him on side for your decision then you do have to put up with his feelings about it, though I still think you can try to limit the expression of anger by reminding him that if he makes this big a fuss he won't be allowed on it at all next time, etc

your mum wasn't helpful to say you were showing him up but maybe she felt you just 'ordered' him off without trying to give him the chance to get off and thus save face? Saving face is the entire purpose of existence when you are ten!

filchthemildmanneredjanitor · 20/07/2009 23:28

i have no idea how you can resolve this -i'm really sorry-i'm sitting here racking my brains for things you can do but i have no idea at all.

Original poster
TheLadyEvenstar · 20/07/2009 23:28

He never had weight put on his shoulders, if he asked a question he was answered. I never treated him like a friend I treated him like my son BUT I do parent differently to many others. I believe that the truth is always the best policy I was never lied to and so I learnt things from an early age.

He learnt about death from my grandad dying when he was 3 and again when my dad died when he was 5. I was not going to lie to him about either...maybe wrong in some peoples eyes BUT the night my dad died he was in the hospital with us,

OP posts:
Original poster
TheLadyEvenstar · 20/07/2009 23:30

Slow
All i said was "ds1 i think its time for you to come off there for a while now"

and he stomped over started crying and stropping without giving me a chance to explain iyswim?

OP posts:
slowreadingprogress · 20/07/2009 23:32

'told the truth about everything regardless of whether or not that truth is appropriate for a child'

that statement really does ring warning bells.

inappropriate sharing of adult issues can have a big, big damaging effect on a child

My honest opinion is that as well as 'going backwards' in terms of his personal freedom, if that statement is correct then he may really need some counselling of some kind.

filchthemildmanneredjanitor · 20/07/2009 23:32

but don't you see-knowing all the truth at such an early age IS putting weight on their shoulders! at such a young age they don't understand enough about the world to be able to make sense of the 'truth'

he knew so much detail about your grandfathers illness-it was not neccessary!

i have a 5 year old and my father is really ill-in heart failure. He has been to see grandad in hospital and knows that he is not very well and that's all he needs to know at 5! I haven't lied to him but i am not going to tell him that grandad is relying on a complex cocktail of drugs to keep him alive!
he doesn't understand and know enough about life to be able to make sense of it all.

Original poster
TheLadyEvenstar · 20/07/2009 23:37

Slow, he was told things but in a way that was appropriate for his age, I never just blurted things out.

for example when my grandad died i told him that old grandad was a star in the sky and we could only see him as a star.

when my dad died because he had been at the hospital most of the 3 months dad was in there, and on the night dad died he had spoken to him just 45 minutes before, I told him that Grandad had gone to heaven and was like old grandad now and a star. When it came to dads funeral i allowed him to go and during the service they lowered his coffin as opposed to curtains closing and he said "mummy, grandads gone now hasnt he, he is not coming back ever is he" I replied no darling he is not, and he broke down and cried.

he has experienced a lot of deaths in a short time.

OP posts:
filchthemildmanneredjanitor · 20/07/2009 23:40

so -were you lying when you told us that he sat in on meetings with the consultant and was able to tell people exactly what was wrong with his grandad?

what about his only being friends with kids with special needs so he can help them? was that the truth too?

i'm sorry to be dogged about this but you need to recognise where this behaviour now is coming from.

Original poster
TheLadyEvenstar · 20/07/2009 23:40

Filch, he asked questions about things he overheard, "what is cancer" "what is the tube in grandads throat" "why is grandad always asleep" "is radiotherapy listening to music"

circumstances meant he was there a lot of the time. Nothing can change that he has had counselling for it and everyone has said that is not the problem.

OP posts:
Original poster
TheLadyEvenstar · 20/07/2009 23:42

Filch yes he was at that meeting, he did at that point know what was wrong because he had asked questions.

His friend was special needs but he had also been brought up around disabled people so had and still has compassion for them. It is second nature to him and I.

OP posts:
slowreadingprogress · 20/07/2009 23:48

that is alot for a child to deal with.

Also I noticed you have a dp - i am assuming then that your ds has experienced a split family situation

these things alone ARE absolutely, easily major enough to give a child some significant difficulties even if you and his real dad are the best of friends.

TBH your approach HAS clearly given him a lack of respect for you, which he is bright enough to actually verbalise for himself!

I think to be honest that the change of approach mentioned on this thread in terms of giving him less personal freedom could go alongside getting him some mentoring/counselling.

It's what I would do for my ds in this situation, personally. Am off to bed. I hope you can take some positive ideas from this thread?

Original poster
TheLadyEvenstar · 20/07/2009 23:50

Slow, oh i will trust me.

He was 22m old when his sperm donor walked out and he was 10 1/2 yrs old when he told him he wanted his permission for his daddy (dp) to adopt him.

OP posts:
filchthemildmanneredjanitor · 20/07/2009 23:51

sorry to do this but.....

'was 3 when 9/11 happened and he did watch the news with me and a few friends. He saw about tsunami, the hurricaine katrina, the bombings in london on 7/7 etc. The reason he saw about the bombings is it is very close to where we live especially the one on 21/7 which was 2 minutes from his school. The school informed the children incase their parents couldn't get through to the school. so naturally when he came home i had to explain to him. I went to the library and got him 2 books on terrorism, 2 books about the war so he could see that things do end and we do come through it.
As for the news and the horrific things on it. He learnt through the news about children being abducted and he has never run off or wandered off especially since watching about holly and jessica

now do you really think a very small child should have been party to any of that?

Original poster
TheLadyEvenstar · 20/07/2009 23:55

Filch, i have never denied he watched the news. he still does. the 9/11 news was on all the time and i was working in a shop where we were watching it. as for the others he was in school and the school informed the children because of the problems getting to school. I beieve that after a parent explaining things the next best thing is books so i did both.....why is this so wrong? they were age appropriate books.

And as for holl and jessica, well as i have often stated i always have the news on even now, can't help it I have always been the same. I like the news so it is on so the dc see it.

OP posts:
RumourOfAHurricane · 20/07/2009 23:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

filchthemildmanneredjanitor · 20/07/2009 23:59

but small children SHOULDN'T SEE THE NEWS IN ALL IT'S GLORY!

this is the point i am trying to make! they don't need to know that truth! you can tell them the truth without giving them every gory detail.

just because you like to have the news on all the time doesn't mean it's a good thing for your children.

he was worrying when he saw other children out alone-that is not right! it shouldn't even have registered with him at that age.

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