to think private schools having charitable status is taking the piss

[zanz1bar]

Most private schools have their charitable status as an accident of history. Does a school like Eton really deserve the same financial status as the NSPCC.

Can it really be justified by a few subsidized places.

Greensleeves, I'm glad theres nothing wrong with your DSs school. really.

UQD - may I say that you are beautifully articulating what I would like to say about this subject but seem unable to - poss. due to being distracted by many small children this pm - but thankyou.

By margotfonteyn on Wed 15-Jul-09 08:59:12
Do all pupils at private schools realise they are 'priviledged'?

Depends how you mean. My DD knows she is at a good school which she is proud of. But at 7y she has no idea that we pay for her education nor why. A few of her friedns go to different schools to her and she would have no idea that hers was paid for and some weren't. There is no reason for her to know that. She just knows that we chose the school that we thought was best for her and us. Which is what we did, so is the right answer when she finally does find out.

DD knows her school is different in that it is girls only. And she knows it is different to some schools as it is so small. She has been into the school I work at a couple of times and coming in tomorrow and she will spend time in the Y1 class I work in. She joins in, makes friends, goes out to play, does assembly, and has a genuinely great time. But at the moment has no real idea why her school is different.

Hulababy DS thinks he choose his school because it has red jumpers and he likes red.

I love your merchant of venice story Litchick.

And no I didn't chose the school to avoid certain social classes either That did not come into it and anyone who has even the vaguest idea of me as a person would now that, for mny reasons.

And yes, my DD wears a boater int he summer. So what? Are people not able to look beyond and see the little girl that is stood there. It is NEVER okay for someone to call my DD names because of what she wears, especially when they are adults. These are children we are taling of it, and TBH this aspects f the anti private school people really really annoys me. It is just not nice. and think about what it is teaching your children! Sadly this happens in RL and on online communities

Let's remember:
There are..
good schools in state sector
bad schools in state sector
good schools in independent ssector
bad schools in independent sector

ditto teachers
ditto pupil behaviour
ditto parent behaviour/involvement

As parents we just do what we feel is best for our children, to the est of our capabilities. We all want the same surely - happy, healthy children who are tolerant of others, who want to achieve and have aspirations, and who love their education years.

lol Morloth - DD probably thinks similar as she does love her summer dress and hat She might not at 11y I guess, lol.

Although I disagree with you fervently in virtually every respect where education is concerned Hula, I do agree that calling the children names is completely wrong. Children are children, it is completely unworthy and unacceptable to be rude or derisive about them.

But no, we don't all want the same. Read Morloth's posts.

"As parents we just do what we feel is best for our children, to the est of our capabilities. We all want the same surely - happy, healthy children who are tolerant of others, who want to achieve and have aspirations, and who love their education years."

This is the quote you are saying I don't agree with Greensleeves? Not sure I have actually said anything like that.

if by "tolerant of others" you mean grudgingly sharing planet space with them, at a fair distance, from the safety of a huddle of people roughly within your salary band, yes

I interpret the idea of social tolerance somewhat differently.

am smiling at swede's iambic pentameter experience and having to buy a book to teach it herself. I went to a private school. I took the Oxford entrance exam in english lit with a focus on the Shakespeare tragedies. No-one ever taught me anything about iambic pentameter. I had never heard of it. I got in. so - a private school that omitted to teach me about iambic pentamters but got me into Oxford taking the shakespeare paper. I'm still not entirely sure what one is but I don't think I've been damaged much as a result.

Obviously, I use the word tolerant to mean that everyone should do whatever they think is best for them and that it is none of my business if they are not breaking any laws. Libertarian remember. I don't care what other people do until it becomes a problem for me and my family. Sounds pretty tolerant (though possibly leaning towards indifferent).

Whereas you seem to think people who make different choices to you are somehow snobbish and selfish.

UQD - again your statement that the local independent schoos are not offering anything over summer to non independent schools is not true, and they HAVE been advertised lcoally too - through local press and the local magazines.

DD's school is running a summer club for under 8s at a very competitive price compared to similiar summer holiday clubs. This is open to any under 8s (from age 3 I think) regardless of if they attend the school. They also have a Playball club running, again open to all, and at the normal Playball prices.

Whilst you may have friends using some of the other independent schools locally you clearly are not aware of what DD's school is doing locally in many ways. So you can't say that all local independent schools are not doing anything, it is not true.

if by "tolerant of others" you mean grudgingly sharing planet space with them, at a fair distance, from the safety of a huddle of people roughly within your salary band, yes

I am assuming this was not aimed at me I would hope not as, if so you clearly have no idea about who I am at all.

My objection to the Shakespeare teaching earlier in the thread was to its mind-numbing focus on getting through an exam by parroting something about some basic sort of grammatical construction. It is the exam focus I hate most -- so nothingwhatever to do with UQDs riff on the themes of Shakespeare as writing for everyman,etc.

The exam focus is the real killer, and something that state schools seem more vulnerable to than private.

However, there are very many children who can grasp an iambic pentameter (and get on with all the 'how does Shakespeare make you feel stuff), and be moderately inspired by having the chance to look at the plays in class in a challenging way -- so long as they aren't choked with SATS-obsessions etc in the process. The expectations of children are shockingly low at school today.

My point of contrast is comp schooling in the 70s (yes I'm old). The difference is unbelievable.

Of course, by all means Green and Morloth, continue.

Green, I'm not sure what it is about your posts that bother me. I'm usually pretty open to different perspectives, even though I may not understand them. Perhaps it's that I find some of what you say so profoundly wrong rather than different, as I've stated in a previous post.

Such as your assumption that all supporters of independent schools are driven by a desire for social status.

Simply nonsense. Perhaps you don't mean to be saying this.

Morloth, I did enjoy your 'online being easier on the wine cellar.'

No it most certainly was not aimed at you

it was aimed at Morloth, who (as she will confirm) is happy to state that she sends her children to private school because she wants them to have a social peer group comprised of affluent middle-class people like her.

I think I have said before that your love for your dd comes through clearly in your posts, and that I think she looks like a lovely child [with or without the boater]. I'm here to debate what I see as an important socio-political issue, not slate you or your child.

Hulababy That was for me I think, because I tend to hang around with people who are quite similar to myself and like the same stuff (unlike everyone who uses state schools apparently).

Greensleeves has extended from that into me thinking other people shouldn't exist. When really I don't mind if anyone exists at all.

"Simply nonsense"

that's a pretty empty analysis. So I'll disregard it

So that is what you're saying, Green?

Thanks Greensleeves; on second reading the threads between mine and yours I realised it was probably not.

As I have said before, my DD is quite happy to mix and play with ALL children regardless f any similarities and differences (well, unless they were mean to her).

I am not actually sure about the definition of middle class. I grew up as one of six shuttled between an outback sheep station and the outer western suburbs of Sydney. Parents made quite a good living from the farm and all their children are quite happy and settled and doing quite well financially.

I tend to think of myself as more of an permanent expat than middle class. Could be wrong though.

most, not all - as I said earlier - but I think most people who choose private education are not doing so because they believe the academic education will be better. I don't think it's quite as ugly as "desire for social status" in most cases - I would say it is more an irrational ingrained prejudice against large groups of people from different socio-economic backgrounds, a prejudice fuelled by ignorance and perpetuated by private schools themselves.

I think it was rude to dismiss my posts as "simply nonsense". I am not as well-informed or articulate as some of the other posters on this topic, but my views are sincerely held, and I believe, considered rather than just knee-jerk.

Yes, I really object to the assumption that I am trying to secure a certain classification via PS. That is bull IMO.