to think private schools having charitable status is taking the piss

[zanz1bar]

Most private schools have their charitable status as an accident of history. Does a school like Eton really deserve the same financial status as the NSPCC.

Can it really be justified by a few subsidized places.

[ThreadWormtail]

I've never ever had the last post on a closing thread before. Just trying for it now.

[Greensleeves]

oh god I've killed it

I'm leaving the thread...I won't come back.... honest

as you were

[Greensleeves]

I'm still chewing over this alleged "urgent style" of mine [narcissist]

hadn't heard that before

[Greensleeves]

I think his mother made the wrong decision in choosing to remove him from the authentic American education all his peers were receiving and buy something she reagrded as safer and better, I think he is a poorer politician and a poorer man for it.

Would he be president had she not done so? I have no idea. I don't think it matters. I don't subscribe to this strange groundless cult of Obama as the Second Coming in anycase. He hasn't done anything yet. And if there's one thing private schools do well, it's teach people how to talk.

I think "cometh the hour, cometh the man" to some degree. And if he couldn't have 'achieved' receiving the same education as the vast majority of the people he is elected to represent, then perhaps he ain't the man.

[TDiddyIsaMan]

Greeny- intersting post above about how you see the world as it is not that diff to how i see it. However, I am not relying on the school to teach DS son about the ups and downs of the world as he has very varied social contact and he will get that all right. He WILL go to poor part of the world with me. He will learn a bit of street sense and all that. But at school (state or private) I want to clear some space for him to pursue learning if that is what he wants. In some parts of greater london you don't have much choice. Not too bad where i am so i will consider both options for secondary.

Sorry to go back to Obama- but do you think his mom was right/wrong to send him to expensive private school when she was not very well off? Did you see that he still found bad company? I wonder if he would have had a chance if he went to one of the US stae (public) schools?

[Morloth]

Its cause I is so exclusive hatwoman .

Remember I am not a local. I didn't even think about schools until I had to, then I called all the ones within walking distance (including state ones!) and went from there based on what I thought would suit the boy best.

We will not be here much more than 2 more years so the secondary school thing/what schools can get them into where doesn't really apply. As I said when we return home he will be going to the local school (which is state) and is all ages on the one site.

[hatwoman]

live in sw london and haven't heard of Tiffin? deary me. it's the 2 grammar schools (one for girls one for boys) in Kingston - but with no catchment so they draw in kids from half way across London and Surrey. but I guess from the postcodes you mention you're much more central-sw.

[Morloth]

Where is it? I haven't heard of Tiffin, we basically have to live within SW10, 5, & 6 - obviously I won't say which one.

ALL of the local state schools we looked at had huge classes, the main attraction for us is the class size (he is bright enough, prolly about average) but he just does not pay attention.

[TDiddyIsaMan]

Greeny- "your urgent style"- like you are on a mission.

[hatwoman]

? yes you did say sw london - which is why I told you about our good state school in sw london. and there it wasn;t exceptional - all the schools near us were good. except for one.

[zazizoma]

But but, I have no flowers!

[harpsichordcarrier]

By happilyconfused Thu 16-Jul-09 11:35:02 "A child in a supportive 'middle class' environment has far more advantages that other children. The parents are more engaged with education and want their dcs to do well. It is those 'middle class' kids in any school who form most of the sports teams, the acting club, the choir, the debating society, LRC monitors, learn instruments etc. The parent that is supportive encourages participation at school - sometimes it is to the detriment of others who are not as confident to put themselves forward. I can say that with absolute confidence in the three schools I have worked in."

yes, happilyconfused that is EXACTLY the point. the more middle class parents educate their children away from the state sector, the fewer committed parents there are and the less likely it is that state schools will have debating societies or high performing sports teams or orchestras.

It matters. The more the middle classes use private schools, the greater the detriment to the state system

[Morloth]

You are obsessed with cutting garden's zazizoma link the post - I will be able to tell you how to kill everything within 2 days.

[Morloth]

We don't get a choice on where we live here hatwoman it is in DH's contract that we must stay within a certain area so he is physically available when they need him - this is no hardship, it is nice here.

I think I did actually say in SW London in the post you are referring to.

[zazizoma]

Group hug!

Anyone for planning a viable education system? Conspiracy theory? Cutting gardens?

[Greensleeves]

I did acknowledge that earlier on TDiddy, I said that I didn't dislike people purely for using private schools - believe it or not I do have friends whose children are at private schools (they're quite robust, my friends ) but I would always be honest and say that I thought they had made a wrong choice.

I don't think every parent who chooses a private school is a selfish bigot. I think a lot are, though. I've met lots of them and their politics make my flesh creep. And I think the others are misguided. I can't help looking at the bigger picture socially, and I don't see it as "sacrificing my children on the altar of principle", I see it as a part of their education, that the world isn't a perfect place, it's exciting and varied and a bit of a rollercoaster.

People do degrees in their thirties all the time these days, it just wouldn't be worth it to me to send them into an unrealistic microcosm to ensure a safe result, academically or socially

But of course nobody wins hearts and minds by being fucking insulting and simplistic, which I can be at times

[hatwoman]

morloth I know - but the "show me a school that..." type approach sometimes sounds like a generalised "it doesn't exist" rather than "it doesn't exist near me", iyswim.

however, before we moved here in jan we lived in sw london. dds went to an excellent state school. very different from what I just described, but very good. got more than its share of kids into Tiffin (not the best indicator of being "good", but an indicator nevertheless). had tonnes of afterschool stuff (all charged for in this case) and dd's class had 25 kids in, with a TA (most of the classes are 30 though, but dd's year lost a few at the beginning of y3 to a local private school in the scramble to get into Tiffin...waste of money imo)

[TDiddyIsaMan]

Greeny- we crossed posts. I think your last posts is more balanced implicitly recognises that many "well meaning, do gooders" send their kids to PS?

[Morloth]

Greensleeves I hope you aren't embarrassed by any cheap shots at me, I rather enjoy a good tussle and I like your feisty style.

[Greensleeves]

My urgent style? you'll have to give me a bit more to go on if you want an answer to that!

[Morloth]

hatwoman I am sure they do, not really an option when you live in SW London though is it?

[TDiddyIsaMan]

Greeny- there is a big difference between fear and care; between fear and caution.

Where did you get your urgent style from? It is very intersting.

[Greensleeves]

reading back, there are some cheap shots by me

but I stick by the main thrust of my view, as expressed in my last post.

and I don't think people always know minutely what motivates their prejudices (we all have those) especially when it comes to emotive and huge decisions like schooling

I lay some blame at the doors of private schools themselves - capitalising on the fears, received assumptions and aspirations of people who basically love their children and want to do the right thng, maybe?

very thought-provoking thread (am I capable of thought, believe it or not)

[hatwoman]

morloth lower down on the thread (I'm trying to catch up) you asked to be shown a state school with small classes and extras thrown in. Well, I realise my school is not the norm (rural village school), but next year dd will be in a class of 12 (though admittedly they won't have a TA), they have an orchestra, the head teaches guitar on Fridays after school (no charge); they run extra after school activities including cooking and gardening (no charge); they have an after-school club every day til 6pm (for which there is a small charge); they have a holiday club 2 days a week (there isn't enough demand for more, if there was they would run it) which includes out-of school activities; they are fantastically flexible on giving extension work for the bright ones and extra time for those who need it (they are used to teaching mixed-year classes so take mixed ability completely in their stride). and their pastoral care is superb - every teacher knows every pupil. I know it's exceptional - but this sort of quality education does exist in the state sector.

[Hulababy]

I do have to disagree that people chose independent education to avoid certain social classes, etc. This is simply not true for many if nto all, of the users I know. Not even subconsciously IME.

Perhaps this is more likely to eb the case in some of the "posher" Southern schools, I kdon't know?