to think private schools having charitable status is taking the piss

[zanz1bar]

Most private schools have their charitable status as an accident of history. Does a school like Eton really deserve the same financial status as the NSPCC.

Can it really be justified by a few subsidized places.

Doh! It's the RANGE of exam results that's important. A bunch of monied kids in private schools being pushed to the limit at school, and with parents who want to get their money's worth, are bound to get a better average than a comp, unless the school is really appalling. Whereas a comp, which takes in pupils of all abilities and backgrounds, should serve the brighter children well by helping them achieve the highest grades whilst offering less able pupils the opportunity to reach their full potential even if that's not straight As.

swedesinsunglasses- yes, Harpenden is very well to do. So you pay for the schools in in your fees. Reminds me that some are paying 4 times for school fees (their choice, i hasten to add);

1)in their house price
2)In general taxation
3)For assisted place
4)private school fees

So stop hounding us you lot. Have a nice calm debate about how we could mix the sectors a bit more for mutual benefit

off to do some work now.

and just to clarify, for those unfamiliar with these tables, by 'count for nothing' we don't mean that the extra difficulty isn't reflected in the stats. No, nothing that obvious - because they aren't the standard paper they are all deemed to have totally failed, big fat zeros.

Lies, damned lies and league tables!

....So you pay for the schools in in your fees house price

GrimmaTheNome - yes i am always very suspicious with the add value tables. Clearly each table only tells part of the story.

PDiddy

PDiddy I mean TDIddy

Quite correct Ermentrude. DH (as I've said, he loves analysing data) has taken apart the exam results for local schools too. On this basis, our local comp appears to be doing at least as well as the nearest private school (which has an easy-ish entrance exam)

The state grammar and better private school (highly selective) each add about half a grade per GCSE, after taking their intake into account. ie there is added value but not as much as appears at first look.

The local faith school, while ostensibly getting better results than the comp, really doesn't because they are indirectly selective (no SEN at all!) and tend to do subjects in which its easier to get high grades (RE rather than languages and triple science).

Swedes- took a while for you to work out that i was taking the P out of PDiddy but well done

GrimmaTheNome - could your husband publish his method and his table on MN? He could even charge us for access

Ooh, TDIddy, be careful with those charging for access suggestions!

zazizoma ...i see;

but someone ought to come up with a better measure.

Its all in his head, and you don't want to go there .

smallwhitecat - i think exam grade is just one measure, it is one of the most visible; and for some it is core.

No smallwhitecat, you are not alone.

Come on guys; exam results allow youngsters to prove their worth and opens otherwise shut doors to some. They are NOT everything but they are an objective measure and in many instances n=better than some of the "jolly good chap" measures that are used to prevent some from pulling themselves up. So yes, I want the rounded student and all that. But I hear some fellow private school parents saying "although my little Johnny didn't do as well as thatr state school boy in his exams;, he is a jolly well rounded chap and is the leader type who will end up at the top".

I don't think that is what you guys are getting at but it is one of the little irks that i have with SOME PS parents.

No disagreement here. Exam results are a popular method because they are measurable. But of course they don't paint the full picture... of any school. Does anyone argue that they do?

Let's suggest some other methods of determining the value of an education. And see who agrees and disagrees with them.

smallwhitecat, definitely not alone.

One of the major reasons that DS is going to a small private school is that he does: PE, Swimming, Karate, Music, Cookery and has a half day on Fridays - they are not very academic at all which is what I wanted for his primary education.

There are 10 children in this year's Year 1, class with a teacher and a teaching assistant. I would like for anyone to find me a state school that can provide the same sort of arrangement. If they could then I would happily save the 9,000 a year.

I am actually a bit confused (it is that State education again probably) by some of the anti PS stuff on this thread, it seems like some people are saying both that State schools are better than Private schools and also that parents are buying their kid's an advantage by sending them private. It can't be both surely?

Thing is TDiddy some people may not be academically smart, but they know how people work and while they may not be doctors and lawyers, they will probably end up doing very well.

My Uncle is a case in point, he is a multi-millionaire runs his own excavation/building business. Left school with his Year 10 certificate (not sure what the equivalent is here) to work as a bricky, but he is excellent with people and great at building stuff (and knocking it down!). He literally employs people to do his adding up/reading for him.

Morloth - Don't think that anyone can say that state school is better than private school or the other way round? which state school? which private school? which child? what sacrifices do the parents have to make to send child to privatre school? what are the local state alternatives?

Interesting that PS parents in my area all end up paying loads for private tennis, swimming etc outside school!

Like you i am a PS parent with one eye on the state sector.

Just as soon as I can get home to Australia the boy is going to the school around the corner from our house (is one big school, with infants, primary and high school all on the same site), and I will never have to think about this again!

"Thing is TDiddy some people may not be academically smart, but they know how people work and while they may not be doctors and lawyers, they will probably end up doing very well."

Morloth - I agree but some of that is backwards looking. The world is changing and school is not the only network. Everyone knows about networking and all that. They teach you that at work and it is no longer the exclusive domain of private schools. Teams are more global and people are looking for all sorts of skills and life experiences. So I think some of us at not going to get as much advantage from PS as we are hoping. could be a shock for us.

Morloth - i envy you. I wish we didn't have all this segragation over here and that we all had to make the state sector work for us. I think that is a valid point that UQD and others are making

Amen smallwhitecat. It's one of the great trials of my teaching career seeing bright intelligent students reject vocational or arts based courses or give up their other activities in the pursuit of the all mighty A grade.

An A-C grade may be a fair measure of success for academically inclined students, but for some, a pass at a vocational course may represent a huge achievement for that particular student and the attainment of some very valuable skills to boot. One of the joys of working in FE was taking students off the GCSE/A level treadmill and watch their joy at achieving for the very first time in their lives.