to think private schools having charitable status is taking the piss

[zanz1bar]

Most private schools have their charitable status as an accident of history. Does a school like Eton really deserve the same financial status as the NSPCC.

Can it really be justified by a few subsidized places.

I kind of meant that being a "Jolly Good Chap" can actually carry some people further than being academic (regardless of schooling).

I am not that smart, not really. I went to a nice state school and did at BA at a pretty average uni. But I am quite good with people and very very good at organising stuff. So I have figured out how to get paid quite a lot for those skills.

I see the attitude still persists that people think they "have to" go private because there is no other option. You never "have to". You may want to, be able to, or a combination of the above. But surely not "have to"?

Well you "have to" if you want a small class, with plenty of one on one time and all the fun stuff rolled into the curriculum (as opposed to after school stuff).

As I said, if you could find me a state school in SW London that provides the same situation I would be more than happy to save the cash. We are lucky enough for it not to be a huge burden on us, but it would be nice to ditch the mortgage a few years early.

Surely if a scenario existed in which one "had to" go private, there would be lots of children just sitting at home with nowhere to go, because they "had to" go private and their parents didn't have the money

Stop wriggling on the hookl and admit it - you like private education because you think your child will associate with naicer children, emerge with a better accent and a nice shiny social veneer, and be able to have a highly-paid job and more than one car.

If you are referring to my comments Greensleeves I have said all those things earlier in the thread, I don't bother to dress it up. I can buy my son something I think is better so I have.

We don't have a car here, but I do drive a 4wd and have a big house in Australia so I probably still fit the type. I don't care, I like my life and I like the friends I have around me. I would be lying if I said I was interested in moving too far out of my social circle. So I don't bother lying about it.

It does seem that, in this thread, the private schoolers' arguments have become more and more reactive and defensive, and ever more recondite and involved. "Oh, well, we need private schools for this reason, well, this reason, no, this reason...oh, and this one..." I don't see why they need to be.

As I said before, there is not going to be a "Day of the Triffids" scenario. Nobody is going to wake up tomorrow and find them all gone. Nobody has the power to do that.

Why are the empowered rattled? What do they know that we don't?

I think both sides are being defensive UnquietDad.

Also, excellent use of the word recondite, I had to look it up.

I do think that there is some social injustice associated with the existence of private schools, but I would send my children to a private sec school if the state alternatives fell below a certain minimum standard and we had enough money to do that and fund university.

I don't like the idea of being altruistic on my children's behalf, and if they suffered too many drawbacks from their state education I would find an alternative, not make them pay the price for my sense of social justice. I would say then that I had to send them private -- just because I have to do what's best for them.

Our secondary school is ok, but horribly compromised by idiotic govt education policies. One of the private altenatives is a crappy snobfest and I wouldn't touch it. But the other is a genuinely good school.

UQD - beginning to think that you just like winding us up or that yoiu just like a fight. You are getting honest feedback from some of us about why we make the choice and the fact that it is not an easy nor cheap choice. But we do have reasons for making such a choice.

first thing some posters need to do is withdraw the incorrect assertion that we are being subsidised since i think we have shown that is ridiculous and it is the other way round.

I think deep down, under all the blustering post-Thatcherite "because-I'm-worth-it-ism" they know damn well their choices are snobbish and selfish. Hence the defensiveness.

ThreadWormtail - very well put!!

I don't think people are being defensive on here though. I don't see it. Morloth explained her situation with honesty I thought, if she's an Australian then that explains her no shit, no tying myself up in class bound bollocks too

The arguments against private schools are just as diverse, on this thread, as on all threads, as those for. The accusations levelled against them are all different.

It goes to show that it isn't quite as cut and dry as everyone would like it to be.

I think Tdiddy has been good on this thread. I think he's wanting to explore the subtleties of the situation. Lots of MNers are v. uncomfortable with doing that, because it doesn't fit their world view.

I would rather be altruistic on my children's behalf - than be a snob who is afraid of ordinary people on their behalf - and model that to them.

But then I don't see the pinnacle of success in life in oznership of a big house and a Chelsea tractor

Greensleeves- i agree with some of your arguments but have to say that calling us all snobbish and selfish is not the way to engage us. read again what some of us have been saying. best wishes

Tdiddy "UQD - beginning to think that you just like winding us up or that yoiu just like a fight." All part of the fun as far as I am concerned. It doesn't make much sense to take anything to heart on the internet.

You say snobbish and selfish like they are bad things Greensleeves.

But it isn't about snobbery Greensleeves, or at least not necessarily. Sometimes the available state school doesn't offer a good enough education.

Yes, I'm odd like that. Funny though, my children seem to have arrived with an inbuilt ability to understand that selfishness and snobbery are wrong. Perhaps if I had sent them to a decent pre-prep they would have been disabused of these foolish notions by now

I'd want my sons to get the best ed even if it made them more likely to be poor.

Greensleeves perhaps.

Selfishness is built into humans, I assume you feed your kids before you worry about the ones down the street? Snobbery is pretty much the same, we surround ourselves with people who are like us. Everyone does it.

thank you one hundred times ahundredtimes for the praise.

Like a good school boy i need encouragement

No, Morloth, they don't.

So how many expats do you hang out with then Greensleeves? I am yet to come across a group of people who don't tend to have a lot in common. Birds of a feather and all that.

90% of my friends here in London are expats, it is probably 50/50 in Sydney - childhood friends and then people I have met as expats who are stationed in Sydney.

Yes, I do too. I agree with that thready.

Also state schools don't bring social cohesion and harmony to 93% of the population. It's obvious they don't.

I expect my children are quite selfish, but I don't think they're snobs. They know a wide range of people - though mostly that diversity is through family, rather than friends I suspect. Though most of our friends go to state schools - I can't for the life of me see the difference between their dc and mine - they're all middle class kids.

There are lots of different type of private schools too. Some are without doubt all about their social cache - the public school - plenty of the ex-grammars and day selective schools, aren't. But I can't dissuade you of that, if you want to believe.

I hate the term 'ordinary people' also 'normal people' that's bad too

Snobbery works in all directions you know.

I have lots of friends from different parts of the world and different social backgrounds

I genuinely find other people's lives interesting

there has to be something that actively offends me - snobbery for example - to turn me off wanting to know somebody

So far the boys are equally open-minded, and long may it continue.