to think private schools having charitable status is taking the piss

[zanz1bar]

Most private schools have their charitable status as an accident of history. Does a school like Eton really deserve the same financial status as the NSPCC.

Can it really be justified by a few subsidized places.

Quattrocento - no-one took a Lexus to the top of Everest, either. The whole point about Everest is that you have to make it under your own steam!

As an aside, I have a number of mates who home educate their kids and throiugh work, have come into contact with many more.
No-one ever seems to target them with the same vitriol...and yet they are refusing to engage and 'improve' their local school.
Would those who would do away with private schools also ban home education?

does anyone remember Alistair Campbell spouting on about how the "middle classes" owe it to their community to send their kids to the local school, thereby improving it!?

My dcs have a lot of relatives so they have relatives who:

• can afford private education but use the local state school instead;

• obtained places at grammar school but go to the local comprehensive instead;

• go to grammar school;

• can easily afford school fees and so pay;

• struggle to pay school fees but do so;

• go to excellent state schools;

• go to rubbish state schools;

• live in council accommodation;

• live in big houses.

I think they see quite a variety of life!!!

litchick - there is very little "vitriol" on this thread. strong feelings and disagreements yes. but I don't see much vitriol. (the nearest thing was in the other direction and it was people like me being called liars - but even that's not really vitriol)

metella - I think that's a useful list - as it shows just how diverse approaches to this whole issue are. fee-payers and state-users alike can't all be pigeonholed

(sorry am catching up on this thread in bits and pieces) skibelle - and others who ask me about the impact on taxation of closing private schools...to be perfectly honest I wouldn't have a problem with paying more tax, and never said I would. If I felt that my tax was being spent to give all kids in the UK a quality education, and to give them an equal start in life, then I wouldn't mind my tax bill going up. I know, in reality and in the UK, this is a pipedream. I guess I'm just a stupid egalitarian idealist who should move to Scandinavia (but that brings up a whole set of other issues and I know my pipedream doesn't really exist there either)

Forgot to add that the dcs also have relatives at faith schools.............

Good god, hold the front page. These "independent" (scoff) schools have, wait for it, non-white people in them... And, hark, what's that? Lancashire accents? Good grief. What on earth are people paying for these days? They'll let anyone in.

Seriously, the idea that you can defend "independent" (scoff) schools on these grounds is a little amusing. It's like defending fox-hunting by pointing out that some of the fox-hunters come from semi-detached houses. It tells me nothing, really, and doesn't advance the actual arguments one jot.

Does anyone actively want to argue that we would not be better off if we were all in it together?

UQD - I thought fox-hunting was banned because it was considered cruel. Even though the enquiry said it wasn't actually cruel. I didn't think it was anything to do with whether the particpants lived in detached or semi-detached housing.

I think most independents worth their salt might draw the line at Lancashire accents.

What does "scoff" mean?

Fox hunting probably is cruel, but it also looks like a great deal of fun and if I could ride well enough and had the connections I would probably have a go.

Swedes, that's precisely my point... the hypothetical argument is irrelevant.

I'd be interested to know - are there any schools, anywhere in the UK, which are genuinely "independent" and which genuinely function as full charities? Which exist entirely to offer education outside the state, irrespective of the thickness of Daddy's wallet or the variety of nebulous interstellar being believed in? Which serve children whose parents could never even begin to contemplate even "struggling to afford" school fees?... If there are, I'd like to know more about the story behind them.

morloth - "scoff" means I am scoffing. In a derisory way. It's in lieu of a [scoff] emoticon.

The premise of your last sentence, UD, is that there is not diversity of state schools, and we all know that such a notion is laughable.

We do not have a two-tier system in this country - we have probably 10 tiers or more.

Ah, I thought it was another word for posh or something. As you were.

So what say you to Home education UQD? Must it be banned and those children forced to school so that we are all in it together?
To me that's starting to sound totalitarian.

I did say something on "banning" above which acknowledges that it isn't an easy stance to take. It's funny, home ed just isn't on the radar as much - you don't get it discussed on here with anything like as much fervency. I wonder why that is?

UD, where I live there is such Independent school...it does not have a school fee system, and it offers their grounds to clubs, etc...
no idea if it is a charity though

How interesting Fairlady... would love to know more.

Just checked and it is a charity

UQD whenever the old chestnut comes up that private parents have a duty to improve their local schools I always bring up HE. Always, utterly ignored.

It's as if the opponents of Private Education refuse to engage with that little snippet. Too inconvenient.

It's a bit different, though. People take on a lot by home-educating. They take a big risk. They take a lot upon themselves and it requires a huge commitment. I think those of us who could never, ever contemplate doing it are a bit in awe of it.

Maybe if everyone who chose to opt out of the state system simply home-educated instead, it wouldn't have ever become an issue.

The school that meets UQD's criteria is Christ's Hospital.

Christ's Hospital School