To think MIL being judgemental and over-bearing about DC's baptism.

[Rollergirl1]

DH and I are not religious. DH's parents are practising catholics and DH was heavily involved in the church until he was a teenager (was an alter boy). I was christened when young but haven't gone to church since i was little. We had a civil ceremony when we got married. DD is due to start school in Sep 2010 and I have started looking at local schools. The two best schools in our area by a mile are the two local catholic schools. So we are now getting DD (3) and DS (1) baptised. And we are getting them baptised at PIL's local church despite it being 200 miles away from where we live. The reason that we are doing this is because local churches expect you to go to church regularly before they will consider baptising. So this is purely down to laziness and convenience. MIL knows the exact reason we are doing this and knows that we are not religious. She is making a big deal of it, arranging marquee for after the ceremony and inviting all their side of the family, etc. And I am happy for her to do so because she is doing us a favour. One of the godparents (my best friend)is unable to make it as they have other plans for that date. I wouldn't dream of making her change them as she knows this is not a big thing for us and we are really only doing for reasons cited above. Also my Mum won't be able to make as she is having a knee replacement the week before and won't even be able to walk. And she is not religious and not catholic. And it is happening 200 miles away. But my MIL is now saying that if my best friend can't come than i should ask someone else to be the godparent and has firmly stated that she thinks my mum should be there. I'm now getting stressed as I really don't want to make a big deal of this as we are only doing for the reason of schools but then think am I being unreasonable as MIL doing us a favour by sorting this out for us?

I don't know about the catholic church but in the CoE it is possible to have a Godparent not present at the service - they have someone there in "proxy" - I know this as we considered having DH's best friend to be one of DS2's godparents - but he lives in South Africa so couldn't be there and we were told he could still be Godparent.

Rollergirl you need to check the entrance criteria of the school that you want to send DD to and see whether you actually want/are able to meet their requirements. Religious schools have many different criteria, some you may have to go to the correct church every week for 3 years to get in, some are more relaxed.

Re the christening this is a huge deal for your MIL, she is a practicing catholic and she has organised it so really you need to go along with what she wants. It's her show really. FWIW I may get DD christened to make my MIL happy - it's no skin off my nose and she feels very strongly about it and she's not very well so we may do it.

All the righteous indignation about religious schools has made me ROFl I'm afraid - the fact is that in many areas (like where I live) there are many more religious school places than there are religious people. Stacks of people start attending church to get their children into the local schools. Sometimes because they are better, sometimes because they are not keen on driving halfway across the borough to go to a primary school. In my case, it is a straight choice between going to church and having a nice easy walk to school or not going and having to drive. I don't believe in god but I am very keen on the environment. So it's a choice between compromising my religious standpoint or compromising my environmental views. Plus personally I think that if there are 3 schools within walking distance it does not seem right that my DD is excluded from attending any of them on faith grounds.

Rollergirl you have been more honest than many people - most of my friends have suddenly rediscovered their religious beliefs and it is niave to think that this doesn't go on all the time. If it didn't the religious schools (CoE anyway) would be half empty.

what lovely tin of spam said about checking entrance criteris it wouldn't cut it round here some require baptism within 6 months of birth some require time at that Church for over 1 year before applications open and some require 3/4 years of worshipping

I know other posters have said this before but I am still amazed that this christening is taking place 200 miles from the OP's home. SIL has just had a baby which she would like to have christened here in Surrey rather than London where they live (for a number of good practical and sentimental reasons). They have asked the priest here twice and I also checked independently with another priest and we were all told that unless there were extenuating circumstances then it could not be done.

Why the hell would you want to send your hcild to a catholic school if you don't believe any of it?

I am quite fed up enough with our non-denominational community primary school insinuating prayers into everything and stuffing the children's heads full of superstitious rubbish. I wouldn't be able to tolerate catholic school

I was going to echo Spam, round here you have to attend weekly for a minimum of two years and have the leader of your church sign a form confirming this, together with comments. It is a standing joke amoungst the local community when the parents turn up bang on cue 2 years before their dc start school, without fail one of the comments added to the form is "Started attending 01/09[two years ago]" so that the school know. CHildren who do this are given as low a priority as is possible under the rules. Of course children who fully join, take part in activities and so on are considered to have fully joined the church and are given the benefit of the doubt.

Are you prepared to put the donkey work in? I mean really commit to the local church, join in weekly plus any other activities you can, to encourage your children in a faith that means nothing to you?

A girl in dds class did this to get into her chosen high school, they started taking her more than 3 years before the school start, they took her to everything the church did, she is an active member of the church and so was given the respect she deserved. Not only that but she continued in the same vein once she had started at her secondary school. IMO to try to get in off the back of a meaningless (to you) ceremony is very bad form indeed - not a moral compass I would want for my dc tbh.

YABU and very disrespectful.

Have you just started this thread for a reaction Rollergirl?

WE can all criticise the OP for her hypocrisy, but the underlying issue is the disgraceful system which enables these schools to exist as part of the state-funded system, and to base (the larger part of) their admissions on the variety of imaginary deity believed in by the parent.

Oh-oh...

I often wonder as well - surely the religious schools like to catch children of non religious parents so that they can get them for their faith? Children with religious parents will be practicing anyway - whereas ones from non religious parents will swell the ranks. Surely the church should be encouraging it?

UD - I would like to see how many "faith" schools are actually Voluntary Aided and set their own admissions policies as opposed to Voluntary Controlled - as the latter has the admissions policy set by the LEA - so religious beliefs arenb't taken into account anyhow. And many VA schools admissions are also determined by the LEA as well (I know the DS's schools are VA but LEA admissions apply).

LovelyTin - our CoE (VA - but with LEA admissioins policy applied) is a very "churchy" schools - but I know that DS1 (now up at the Junior school - also CoE VA) has at least one friend who has been at the school since infants and is still firmly Muslim.

From my understanding Catholic schools do tend to "push" it more than the CoE though.....

The real issue is why some schools are so much better than others - why parents who aren't religious jeopardize their immortal souls (fortunately, they don't believe in it) to get their children into faith schools - if the local comprehensives were better this would not happen at all!

goodness me. The thread has now regressed to attacking those that believe in God !!
My taxes fund all sorts of things that I don't wholeheartedly support. Hey ho !

It's the old "choice" myth again.

UD, interesting thoughts, why don't you start your own thread for a proper discussion on those points? (Then I can hide it, I can't hide this one now I have posted on it).

It isn't as simple an issue as having your taxes funding things you don't support, as it affects a system in which the idea of "choice" is supposed to convince us that there is a (sorry for pun) level playing field.

It's not like saying I don't approve of Trident - that's hugely simplistic.

sarky kingcanute. Just extending the discussion.

ermm UD - oh yes the choice myth that meant that the other "outstanding" infant school in our town was also oversubscribed............and no it's not a faith school.

I think it's pretty common knowledge that (even taking faith schools out of the equation) the current system of school allocations isn't a "choice" at all - it's a pot luck that the school you're chosen isn't oversubscribed, and if it is that the school you end up with isn't totally crap.

I haven't read all 5 pages, so sorry if i'm repeating what others have said.

Firstly, i do also think that it's a bit of a piss take to get your kids baptised when you don't have any intention of following it all through, or any initial interest in the religion.

BUT, the catholic schools where i live do have to take a percentage of non catholics each year, do you know if these places have already been taken up.

with regards to your MIL, let her make a fuss, it is after all her religion that your taking advantage of, perhaps it takes the edge of the piss take if she's allowed to make it seem above board

I know, I was quite pleased with the edge to that one

sorry UD, what choice do you not have then ?

and you can make all the current school secular and you'd still end up with the same issue - that excellent local church school down the road isn't suddenly going to become crap, and that shitty little one in the opposite direction isn't suddenly going to become great. You'll stille end up with the (ex) church school oversubscribed

Mind you - I suppose it's easier to attack church schools than ask questions of WHY there are still so many failing schools and WTF the government is(n't) doing about it.