To think MIL being judgemental and over-bearing about DC's baptism.

[Rollergirl1]

DH and I are not religious. DH's parents are practising catholics and DH was heavily involved in the church until he was a teenager (was an alter boy). I was christened when young but haven't gone to church since i was little. We had a civil ceremony when we got married. DD is due to start school in Sep 2010 and I have started looking at local schools. The two best schools in our area by a mile are the two local catholic schools. So we are now getting DD (3) and DS (1) baptised. And we are getting them baptised at PIL's local church despite it being 200 miles away from where we live. The reason that we are doing this is because local churches expect you to go to church regularly before they will consider baptising. So this is purely down to laziness and convenience. MIL knows the exact reason we are doing this and knows that we are not religious. She is making a big deal of it, arranging marquee for after the ceremony and inviting all their side of the family, etc. And I am happy for her to do so because she is doing us a favour. One of the godparents (my best friend)is unable to make it as they have other plans for that date. I wouldn't dream of making her change them as she knows this is not a big thing for us and we are really only doing for reasons cited above. Also my Mum won't be able to make as she is having a knee replacement the week before and won't even be able to walk. And she is not religious and not catholic. And it is happening 200 miles away. But my MIL is now saying that if my best friend can't come than i should ask someone else to be the godparent and has firmly stated that she thinks my mum should be there. I'm now getting stressed as I really don't want to make a big deal of this as we are only doing for the reason of schools but then think am I being unreasonable as MIL doing us a favour by sorting this out for us?

Ah, I see Connie.

I understand why you are doing this Roller and I think you are entirely justified in going through with the baptism in order to get into the school of your choice. Whilst the UK has religious state funded schools many people have no choice but to do whatever it takes to get their kids into the best school possible. I think you have been very brave to be as honest as you have been on here and I am sorry you have had to put up with the digs and some of the abuse you have recieved.
I think you will have to submit to whatever your MIL asks of you - as others have said it will mean a lot to her and she is doing you a big favour.
The whole schooling system in the UK needs a massive restructuring and I hope that eventually all religious schools are removed from the public sector which will go some way to removing a lot of the problems.

"I hope that eventually all religious schools are removed from the public sector which will go some way to removing a lot of the problems. "

yeah and can't you just see the Government building enough new schools to create places for all of those that attend church schools.

FWIW NOT all "church" schools have the same strict criteria.

DS's infant school the selection is done exactly the same way as all of the other LEA schools in the area - and it's a very "churchy" CoE school.

I'm glad other family will be there. Re the godparent my point is that being asked to be a godparent is a big deal, like being asked to be a best man, except that it is a life long commitment. So if your friend can't be there, then unless it is for a very good reason (like your Mums) then that suggests that they are not taking it very seriously. In which case they shouldn't be a godparent. That's not to say that they won't be a fantastic family friend, just not in this particular role. Now I do understand that they know you don't think much of it, so they haven't taken it seriously, but to be honest they should just have said no. that you have three other godparents there isn't really the issue. Both children should have two godparents there to say the vows.

If I was asked to be a godparent that is what I would do. Even for my nearest and dearest (although they wouldn't ask).

However I know this sort of thing happens all the time in CoE churches (my sister was a vicar). Vicars there can't really turn people away (established church and all that). I am very surprised at a Catholic church letting you just turn up for the service though.

I dont think they would have to build any new schools just remove the religious content from the school. Simply make all schools secular as in most of Europe and elsewhere. Anyone who wishes to go to a religious school could then be served by the private sector.

you don't believe but are willing to send your child into 6 years of a catholic education??

Do you not see how difficult this will be? How will you be able to support that child when he will be learning and participating in being catholic?

I'm an atheist and I'd never send my child into a faith school. If local schools arent' as good, you will just have to spend the extra time in helping your child reach his full potential

This baptism will be huge to your PIL and you are bVu

Lots of church school buildings belong to the LEA though, and the LEA pay for upkeep etc etc (I think the church often pays about 10% of the costs, so not massive). Also as the numbers of children continue to decline, if the church ones were gradually taken out of the equation then there would be no need to build new schools. Churches could retain a few schools as charities and run them for the truly religious instead of a)the people who have no choice but to go there (areas with no non-church schools, eg many villages); b)the people who feel that their children should go to the local state school regardless of it's bent, and c)those who think that church school = good education and will take whatever steps necessary to have their children there.

Rollergirl might do well to look at the value added marks of her local schools and check to see if they are really good, or just a magnet for the less deprived as they have been proven to be in many areas.

I can't read this thread, the op was enough I'm too angry. I am Catholic, regular church goer and always have been. DD was baptised because we wanted her to be brought up as a Catholic, we are known well in our church, run tea and coffee after Mass, on committees etc etc. Because of people like you, I have to sign registers and fill in long application forms to prove that we are practising Catholics and we will go on a waiting list in amongst the people like you who will lie through their teeth just to get what they want. We may well not get DD into the school attached to her church because of you and your ilk.

The school, as are a lot of RC schools, is voluntary aided. That means that the church often as not (and does in our case) own the land and buildings and contributes a lot of money to the running of the school. In other words, a huge chunk of it is paid for by us Catholics. So why you think you should be able to swan in and potentially push out a real Catholic family is beyond me. And then you'll come on here giving out because they have dared to tell your child about Jesus or because they told them about the Crucifixion at Easter.

You are a liar and a hypocrite and you don't even care who knows it. Great example for your children. And now I'm hiding this thread because this whole thing makes me sick.

You are being exceptionally unreasonable and you know it-so why post?

thing is it's not as simple as "church schools" - I know NOTHING about Catholic schools.

However CoE schools (which comprise :

"25.3% of all state primary schools in England are Church of England schools - that's 4,470 schools.
5.8% of all state secondary schools in England are Church of England schools - 220 schools. "

come under 3 distinct "groups"

their funding and admissions varies as to which "sort" they are

• voluntary aided: the school is owned by the church, a majority of the governors are appointed by the Church, the teachers are appointed and employed by the governing body, the cost of repairs and capital projects is raised by the governing body with 90% grant from the DfES, religious education and worship are distinctively Anglican, the governing body is the admissions authority;
• voluntary controlled: the school is owned by the Church, the Church appoints governors, but there is no Church majority on the governing body, the teachers are employed by the Local Education Authority, the LEA funds repairs and capital projects, religious education follows the local agreed syllabus, the worship is Anglican;
• foundation: the foundation owns the school, the governing body employs the staff and is the admissions authority, the Church appoints a minority of governors, religious education follows an agreed syllabus and the worship is Anglican.

DS's infant (and junior) schools are both voluntary aided. The fact that I'm the organist and they've both attended church with me since they were babies had NO bearing whatsoever on them getting into the infant school. They follow the

(i) Children in public care.
(ii) Pupils with an older brother or sister continuing at the school or the linked junior school at the time of admission of the younger child.
(iii) Pupils who live closer to the preferred school than any other school.
(iv) Other pupils.

(ie the "standard" LEA admissions policy)

although I must confess I got a place on the distance factor based on the fact that I couldn't actually live any closer to the school if I tried - 2 of my garden walls are also school walls, and the school hall is approx 1 metere away from the side of my house )

ALL Voluntary controlled schools have their admissions determined by the Local Education Authority.

So it's not just a case that "oh church school awkward school admissions"

< applauds eyeballs >

I think it's terrible that people feel he need to resort to these sort of things to get into a school. My DCS go to a catholic school and it's fabulous, much better than the non denominational schools nearby, we are not religious at all.

yabvu. Just change the date so your mum and godparents can be there.

And rofl that you want to send your kids to a catholic schools when you can't be bothered to go to a few masses. If the schools are that oversubscribed they may well want evidence of rather more commitment to the religion than a one off christening. I've heard of people having to get letters from their own parish priest to confirm regular church attendance etc.

Can I ask just how much religion is practised in a catholic faith school?

I think it depends on how the school is funded, if it's funded entirely by the church then you don't have any right to a place if you are not a catholic, if the school is in ANY way funded by taxes then do what you must to get your child in if it's the best school.

" In other words, a huge chunk of it is paid for by us Catholics"

A huge chunk might be paid by you catholics but the rest of the chunk is paid by tax payers.

My dcs now prayer at least twice a day and tell me I'm wrong not to believe in Jesus!!!!

Catholics are taxpayers too. All Catholic schools are paid for in part by the church. It might only be 10% but it is millions on top of the taxes that Catholics pay alongside everyone else. 30% of children who attend Catholic schools are not Catholic and the church is contributing towards their education as well.

wow eyeballs!

well said!

wow eyeballs!

well said!

But why shouldn't a church educate all? Surely a church is about fairness, equality and not discrimination?

Nice how these religious folk wish to exclude!!

Well people with no children are taxpayers and they contribute to your childs education. Why should catholic taxpayers get to decide what their tax money pays for? They don't it's just a hugemelting pot of money so saying well catholics are taxpayers too doesn't really work as an argument.

Also do catholic church schools have charitable status?

apart from the deceitful and despicable nature of forcing children into a religion you don't respect or believe in...

don't religions recruit? so this is presumably a good way for them to get some new people in.

" deceitful and despicable nature of forcing children into a religion you don't respect or believe in"

So every single child of catholic parentage hs faith? Or do some/most just go along to sunday school etc because their parents make them? Lets be honest here faith schools are usually about the parents wishes not the childs.