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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to regret giving my dd a gay packed lunch?

518 replies

pointydog · 30/06/2009 20:35

Dd1 (12) was off on a fun school trip today with a mix of kids from high school.

I suggested a few things for her packed lunch this morning and she went off happily with a peanut butter sandwich, a fruitus bar, a kitkat, some dried apricots, a tub of home-made muesli and a bag of chipsticks.

The tuff kids laughed at her lunch - snorting particularly loudly at the apricots - and called it gay.

I feel like the mum in About A Boy.

OP posts:
Morloth · 01/07/2009 14:32

stillstanding I am extremely pessimistic and cynical, I like being that way - it means I am more often pleasantly surprised by people than not.

You can pull them up all you like, but it isn't going to make any difference other then them either ramping it up or finding a new way to be offensive.

Pipeyspov · 01/07/2009 14:35

May I just ask, purely out of interest, how you ladies feel about the word "Bastard" being used as an insult? I'm curious because (a) I am one and (b) the term seems to be used in a derogatory way quite a lot on this forum; so I assume it's OK?

JemL · 01/07/2009 14:35

My DS aged 3 shouted "That's gay" at a family barbecue when I wouldn't let him eat ketchup directly from the bottle. I was so mortified, even thinking about it now makes me feel awful. He got it from my sister - who uses it constantly (she is 23) in fact when he is around her his vocab becomes more bizarre - he constantly describes things as being "rank" another of her favourite words.

My sister has got a lot of gay friends, so it isn't even as if she is a genuine homophobe - she just started saying it as a teenager and never grew out of it. She got it from South Park originally.

Needless to say, I had words - but it was worrying that a. I had stopped even noticing how often she said it and b. that DS had latched onto it at such a young age.

GetOrfMoiLand · 01/07/2009 14:36

Lol at chips having sex! I bet you make them squirm.

Rhubarb · 01/07/2009 14:39

Thing is, gay isn't a swear word at all. It used to mean happy and still does, but now it also means to be homosexual.

The kids have now added another meaning, to be naff. I also think it's from South Park. Young kids hear it, have no idea about the homosexuality side of things and use it to describe something naff.

How would you feel if your child said they were feeling gay? Would you reprimand them for using the word in its original context and meaning?

serenity · 01/07/2009 14:39

I personally can't see an end to war, hunger, poverty, doesn't mean we shouldn't bother to try. By allowing kids to continue to use terms such as these, without telling them it's wrong and unacceptable, adults are giving tacit approval for their continued use.

KittyBigglesworth · 01/07/2009 14:40

Never use it, haven't heard it for a long time, gender specific anatomical insults are more friendly IMHO

KittyBigglesworth · 01/07/2009 14:41

The word barstard that is.

MissSunny · 01/07/2009 14:41

Message withdrawn

Morloth · 01/07/2009 14:42

So what are you personally doing to end those things serenity? Honestly?

I do nothing because I don't really care and it seems to me that the majority of people in the world don't really care, so I come back to my original point on this thread, that if the percentage of people who pretend to care about shit on the internet actually did something then the world would be a different place.

seeker · 01/07/2009 14:42

"oung kids hear it, have no idea about the homosexuality side of things and use it to describe something naff."

I KNOW they don't. That's why it's our job as parents to EXPLAIN it to them. When my ds first used the word 'fuck" he was 4. He had no idea that it wasn't a word he should use, so I explained it to him. That is one of our jobs as parents!

Rhubarb · 01/07/2009 14:43

But seeker, it's not a swear word. It was never a swear word. Would you still tell them off for using it to describe 'happy'?

stillstanding · 01/07/2009 14:46

Morloth, I am definitely going to keep pulling them up on it and I think it will make a difference.

Sensible people don't want to offend and half the time it's an awareness issue. If I teach my DS that it is not acceptable to use the word as an insult and his friends know that it won't fly in my house and others do the same it will gradually start to change - just like it did with the other words you mentioned earlier.

But you do have to start somewhere ... no point in just throwing your hands up when you are faced with heinous prejudice.

tearinghairout · 01/07/2009 14:48

I don't think that using 'gay' to mean naff neccessarily has a connection with 'gay' to mean homoseual, I'm sure my dch and their friends uses the word with two different meanings.

There was an exhibition of GCSE Art at the school last week. I saw a brilliant pair of shoes that had been made by someone, and was surprised (don't know why)to read the name label and see that they were by a boy. Anyway, DS (15) said "Oh him, he's gay..." then pointed to the next exhibit, a photo of a girl, and said "...and that's his girlfriend"!

So, calling something gay as in stupid/geeky does NOT necessarily mean they are saying that gay people are stupid etc.

daftpunk · 01/07/2009 14:50

morloth...not sure if you're still here..what was the name of that web site you gave me the other night?

i'm running to school now..

tearinghairout · 01/07/2009 14:50

Am not saying it's OK though - I still don't like it much.

Rafi · 01/07/2009 14:50

But spaz & paki aren't swear words either, Rhubarb. And no-one would consider those acceptable.

stillstanding · 01/07/2009 14:51

Morloth, do you genuinely not care? A lot of people (in particular gay people) find this truly offensive, does that just not matter? And who is it you think is pretending to care?

(Sooo many questions!)

serenity · 01/07/2009 14:54

Honestly? Not as much as I should. I'm not tramping around fields caring for sick people, researching medicines, or making myself a target in some wartorn country. I'm not brave enough or qualified enough to do that. So I donate money when I can afford it, I support other people who are a better position to physically help, and I bring my children up to care about the people around them, whether it's someone in their school or someone halfway around the world who they'll never meet.

Calling people names, racism, homophobia, whatever is unacceptable no matter how cynical and world weary you'd like to be. I'm truly sorry that you don't care, I really am, but tbh, if you really didn't care you wouldn't be so bothered about people 'pretending to care about shit on the internet' rather than actually doing something...

Rhubarb · 01/07/2009 14:55

No, but what I am saying, perhaps rather unsuccessfully, is that the word gay was never, ever an insult.

It meant happy.

As in, "I'm so gay!"

Then somehow, I'm not sure how, the word was adopted by homosexuals. They now use it with pride.

I agree that it should not be used as an insult. But in this instance, it is being used to mean 'naff'. So by saying that this is an insult, is saying that 'naff' is an insult.

I can see why gay people would be miffed if it was being used to mean 'naff' because that denotes that they, being gay, are naff. So I wouldn't let my kids use it in that context. But the way it is being used by kids is not intended to be an insult against gay people as these kids don't realise what the word 'gay' means.

And no-one has yet answered me about if your child were to use it in it's original context. Would that be wrong now?

KittyBigglesworth · 01/07/2009 14:58

People can change anything if they feel strongly enough about it regardless of how worthy the cause is. Look at the number of people who signed Diana's book of condolence and stood outside Westminster cathedral for her funeral. Flocks of them. They didn't even know her. Similarly with Jade Goody. The Republicans never thought Obama would get in either but people cared enough to get out of bed that day and vote and that enthusiasm was encouraged primarily through the internet.

I'm not expecting public demonstrations about the questionable terms of abuse that children use but the level of apathy amongst some people is depressing.

riddley · 01/07/2009 15:01

Oooooh, I REALLY hate it. My son's said it in my earshot a couple of times and I've gone crackers.And I don't think kids DO perceive the word as having two senses.

Has anyone got a gay teen?ask them-I don't think they'd be all that comfortable with it being used widely in school...

Failing that, let's ask Peter Tatchell

Personally I'd rather my kids used "shite" instead.

stillstanding · 01/07/2009 15:01

Rhubarb, I think most people would agree that the word gay has moved on from being happy to being homosexual. So, yes, I probably would "correct" my child if he used it in the happy context although I seriously doubt he ever would for the same reason.

But I don't accept that the word has moved on to meaning naff. I think that using the word as an insult has clear homophobic connotations regardless of whether children are aware of them or not. Seeker's 4 yo doesn't know what fuck means but that doesn't mean he should be encouraged to use the word.

riddley · 01/07/2009 15:03

ps nice lunch tho. Some of the kids in our school get Puritan Lunch ie homemade bread sandwich, tap water and fruit. Now that really IS gay. Ooops, shite.

serenity · 01/07/2009 15:06

Naff is an insult in that context Rhubarb, not an insult like swearing, but still an insult. The intention behind the word is to be insulting (Ok, the lunch doesn't care, so it's fairly random, but yswim?)

If kids don't know what 'gay' means then that's where adults pulling them up and telling them comes into it.

Oh, and I know you weren't asking me, but FYI I don't care if mine use the word gay in context, so, no I don't think it's wrong.