AIBU to worry because I can't afford to privately educate my children?

[LaydeeStardust]

I hope this makes sense-I've had wine!

We've got 4 bright and happy children,aged 4 and up.

DS2 is 14, and is apparently extremely bright and attends our local inner city state school which gets average results

Both his own school teachers and two friends who teach at different private schools have told us that he should attend a private school to give him the best possible chances in life.

One of his teachers actually said we are letting him down by not sending him to a private school

We earn too little to pay for private education ourselves so he'd have to apply for an assisted place (we both work in social services and health)

we honestly believe in the state system,but maybe we can't really say that because we don't earn enough choose?

DS2's done his own research and is now worrying that he won't be able to get into a good uni, or get a good job etc if he doesnt go to a private school....and I don't know how to reassure him!!

I'd be so interested to hear other peoples' views on this-both me and DH went to state schools then uni, but if anyone feels I'm living in cloud cuckoo land to believe that our children will achieve whatever they want without a private education please tell me!!!

Thanks in advance!!

"She'll do OK, private school or not. Maybe if I had aspirations for her to do medicine or be a Fleet Street journo or join the BBC I'd feel differently."

That's interesting. So you think those particular careers are unreachable from state schools? And you also think that those careers are out of reach for your DD? Why is that?

Tis very worrying if people really think those careers are unreachable from state schools. Of course they aren't. I went into Law then Education from a state school background myself (a pretty bog standard comp too) and found plenty of other likeminded state educated people. If anything I worry that my privately educated dc might be spoonfed a little too much. There were specific reasons why this dc is in private, and yes, it meets those particular needs, but on balance I find the teaching at my other dc's state school higher quality and more inspiring. Raw results at the state are a little lower but their value added is much higher. It's true that a lot of teachers see private as an inferior career option - I think the reasons for this are complex and I don't entirely agree with them, but it's certainly true. The best postgrads on my course for teaching all went into state.

I was about to ask the same question, Quattro!

Though I'd add: one of the big benefits of private schools to my mind is that they give children chances to be anything (or nothing - following 13 years at one, I am 'just' a Mummy who does some writing on the side!)

I am also struck (in a different way) by Zeke's comment: " 6 are highly likely to get an A grade (4 of which will be well above 90% - 80% is an A)."

Any exam which allows that number of pupils to score above 90% has to be a seriously flawed exam...

'Any exam which allows that number of pupils to score above 90% has to be a seriously flawed exam... '

Hmm don't understand the logic of that. Why flawed?

It remains the case - sadly, in my view - that private school pupils are vastly over-represented in Oxbridge, and in professions such as law and journalism (dunno about medicine).

That's not to say that state school pupils can't get there; but they probably have to be that much better, and work that much harder, to do it.

Maybe LadyHooHa but these are exceptionally bright students who also work very hard. At this school ('standard comp intake' school) it is the brightest year group I have had in five years. Last year there were no students at even A grade in Chemistry, the year before that 67% were, but only one at 90%+ standard (she is currently studying Medicine at Oxford).

Several of the top private schools get such spectacular A level results because pupils who don't do well enough after the first year of sixth form are asked to leave.

I went to an all girls private school, I have mixed memories of it, and there were some good teachers, but also quite a few really bad ones, and some that left absolutely no impression whatsoever. My DH went to a private primary school then a state school for secondary and was a million times happier there (and still went on to go to a good university). Likewise, my Dad was a boarder at an extremely posh public school and my Mum went to the local state school in Gateshead, and they both ended up at Oxford so I think it utterly depends on the individual child and the individual school - you can't compare one to the other and say that there is a blanket right or wrong answer I'm afraid.

Does your DS feel that his current school is lacking in how it teaches him?

Also, my exDH went to a quite poor comp and achieved 4 grade A's at A level and went on to study medicine at a top university.

His parents subsequently found out about scolarships at private schools for his younger sibling. He attended private school, on a FULL scolarship (v.v.bright), and achieved 4 grade A's at A level and went on to study medicine at a top university.

Don't underestimate YOUR contribution as a parent. Loving, balanced and supportive parenting is so incredibly important.

scholarships sorry

If pupils are routinely scoring 90% in an exam, the exam is not challenging enough. I'd guess that if Zeke's group of exceptionally bright pupils are scoring that highly, such scores will be commonplace at most independents (and grammars, come to that). How can universities distinguish between 'bright', 'very bright' and 'extremely mega-bright' if it's possible to score that highly?

whereeverIlaymyhat on Sun 28-Jun-09 19:28:30
"I agree that the vast majority of university places are filled by children from state school, well Golf Studies alone accounts for 60 students per year."

Ah, you reckon a child from a comprehensive is more likely to be interested in golf studies?

Only if they're fick.

Quattrocento, my sons' (smallish)state primary has a full-time PE teacher and many free or very cheap after-school sports clubs even breakfast exercise classes including rugby and athletics, they do French for the last three years of primary and have individual music lessons in a wide range of instruments for under £200/year. They also share a specialist art and a specialist music teacher with neighbouring schools.
This year DS was in a class of 17 and next year DS1 will start school in a class of 16. They even have competitive races at sports day and compete with other schools in the county in an annual championship (DS1 won a gold in the relay).
All this is available to DS2 who has SN that would preclude him having access to our local private school.

Our state primary has music. Recorder for all in class lessons in year 2, music lessons at extra cost from yrs 3-6 (guitar, wind, brass and strings), an orchestra and a choir. One term tuition in another instrument free for all in year 5 - they all do the same instrument and give a concert at the end.

It has sports with proper competitive teams playing in local leagues - netball, football, cricket, cross country, basketball and I think hockey.

They do a language every year from yr2, though it changes from French to Spanish to Italian which seems slightly odd.

A good many of us are in the position of the OP, where quite frankly it wouldn't matter if independent education was a thousand times better than state education, or was the only opportunity anyone ever got of learning to play the French horn- because we still can't afford it.

This being so, I refuse to let my dd believe that her chances of becoming a doctor or a lawyer or a vet were taken away from her the day she was born into a family that cannot pay school fees. Instead I have done my best to inculcate in her an interest in learning and a positive attitude towards the world- and now that she has reached secondary school age I tell her that it is her own responsibility if she wants to get on in the world or not.

Hurrah Cory!

The vast majority of children (93% nationally) go to state school. Therefore why should the vast majority of university places not be taken by state school pupils?

Also - for most people this is simply a non-argument. Look at what a small percentage it actually relates to. And if you factor out London it's even smaller - here in South Yorkshire it's not 7%, more like 5%, and the affluent suburbanites of Sheffield account for most of that. In Barnsley I believe it's close to 0%.

(I posted a link a while ago on the distribution of private education across the UK - I'll try and find it again.)

The prominence this so-called choice gets on here is nonsensically disproportionate, leading to guilt like that expressed by the OP. You'd think private school was something so germane to the vast majority of children's welfare - like milk, or weaning, or play. In fact, it occupies a minority position on a par with Chicken Keepers.

cory - an excellent post. I also feel that one of the potential disadvantages of private is that it could potentially make your own children so reliant on it that they, in turn, will feel that they have failed if they can't afford private education for their children...

And I speak as a parent with a dc in private at the moment, so I have no particular axe to grind, but tbh it does worry me sometimes. My dd may well go into an interesting career where she can't afford school fees for her own children. Neither would I want her to feel under pressure to pair up with someone just because of their ability to pay school fees!

I hope my dd feels she has had a rounded and successful education, but if it makes her feel that anything other than private is inferior, then it will have failed...

You are lucky Grammaticus. It's not the norm around here. Which brings us back to LTOS's point about how patchy this sort of provision is - when it really shouldn't be.

Unquietdad - good post. We live in an affluent area of London where I would guess at least half, if not more, go private (despite excellent local state schools). From DD1's nursery year, only four went to state schools. It's very easy to forget that private education is not the norm throughout the country and usually not even an option.

I went to my local state comprehensive and then to Oxford - there is no general difference in what my school friends and my (mainly) privately-educated uni friends have achieved in life or their happiness.

The main differnece as far as I can tell is that my privately-educated friends can read Latin. And they went to Fiji on their school trips and we went to Bradford

dd's state secondary has an after-school Latin club

(but dd has steadfastly refused to join. could be something to do with having a professional Latinist in the family.)

I haven't read all the thread.

Just want to add that I went to a private school with Baskingseals we now have children in state schools in part because of our own experiences and watching the consequences of high pressure schooling unravel in the midlife crisis of our friends.

You may fight your way to that high powered position after years of private education and expectation in a bubble of like minded friends and family only to find you hate every single waking hour.

Or in fact you may revel in every minute of your high powered job and thank god you had the opportunity to do an interesting role and were spared the fate of clock-watching in a dull job

LOL, Staranise. I just accompanied prep-school DD's class on their trip to, yes, Bradford.

(Violethill, yours is an interesting point. I spent my whole school career in an independent school - following one year at a state primary, which is when the teacher advised my parents to look at the private options - and do indeed think that state schools are necessarily inferior. I am not particularly proud of this, and I wish it were not so, or else I would be sending my DCs to the bells-and-whistles multi-award-winning state primary a few doors away instead of worrying about how to pay their fees!)