AIBU to worry because I can't afford to privately educate my children?

[LaydeeStardust]

I hope this makes sense-I've had wine!

We've got 4 bright and happy children,aged 4 and up.

DS2 is 14, and is apparently extremely bright and attends our local inner city state school which gets average results

Both his own school teachers and two friends who teach at different private schools have told us that he should attend a private school to give him the best possible chances in life.

One of his teachers actually said we are letting him down by not sending him to a private school

We earn too little to pay for private education ourselves so he'd have to apply for an assisted place (we both work in social services and health)

we honestly believe in the state system,but maybe we can't really say that because we don't earn enough choose?

DS2's done his own research and is now worrying that he won't be able to get into a good uni, or get a good job etc if he doesnt go to a private school....and I don't know how to reassure him!!

I'd be so interested to hear other peoples' views on this-both me and DH went to state schools then uni, but if anyone feels I'm living in cloud cuckoo land to believe that our children will achieve whatever they want without a private education please tell me!!!

Thanks in advance!!

"Do they not normally do foreign language, sport and music at state schools? Why the need to supplement for these which quite a few people have mentioned?

Dunno about nowadays but there was very little sport, no music save for cacophonous recorder playing and no foreign language teaching at my state primary schools."

my ds is in Yr 4 at a junior school which is rated good rather than outstanding- yet he plays the recorder and the French horn, is a member of the school orchestra (and could sing in the choir if he wanted to), he is learning French, learns Brazilian soccer after school (school brings in coaches) and would love to be picked for the school football team- though I doubt that's going to happen any time soon

the school orchestra takes part in musical event all over the region, and the school brings in local artists and musicians to work with the children

don't think there is anything unusual about that these days

I think you make a valid point cory. Many people judge by their own experiences of school and fail to look at how things have moved on. Also, there was a period back in the 80's when state school teachers were doing very little in the way of extra curricular stuff, but it's all very different these days. I teach in a state secondary which offers a huge range of sports, academic, and other activities after school, plus there are lunchtime clubs. In the Easter holidays there was a 4 day free revision programme, and during study leave there are free intensive revision programmes for Year 11 students prior to exams. Music and sport are in abundance. This is very different to my own experience of school, where you basically went to lessons and went home!!

I think with the financial position that we're all currently in the return of the bad old days is not too far away, there are massive cuts on the way in the public sector and all these lovely music lessons/french/sports coaches will be affected for those actually getting them, which is not happening in our state school in a very middle class area.
Everything is extra, tennis, football, french clubs you name it, you pay for it and have to taxi them around too.

we have to pay for the Brazilian soccer and the French horn lessons- but is that different from a private school? don't you pay for extras there?

When the dcs were at state primary there were no languages, competitive sport or art on offer unless you paid for it.

I was run ragged taking them to sports activities, music lessons etc outside of school!!!

Yes you have to pay for all the extras in private, including some that took me by surprise - eg textbook charge. That's a termly charge to borrow the textbooks!

It depends, violethill. The only extra I pay for now the dcs are at prep school is individual instrument tuition.

Same here, Metella. Books, school trips, theatre tickets and so on are all included. The two optional extras are ballet and individual instrument tuition. I think the schools vary! Some fees look quite reasonable, but then you can pay a lot on top of them.

UQD, you asked me where the evidence was that state primary schools did not offer languages sport or music. I checked this out with my three local primaries and they were all consistent in not offering them - hence (partly) why my DCs went independent.

This is distinct of course from state secondaries, which all seem to offer sport (sport tends to be offered to a lesser extent) music and languages.

Absolutely,LadyHooHa - you really need to check what's included to compare properly!!

First of all at the teacher who said that!

I have been a state secondary school teacher for 13 years and I have taught many, many extremely bright students and I don't feel any of these students were 'failed' by their state school.

If I just think of my yr 13 Chemistry class who have just left - 6 are highly likely to get an A grade (4 of which will be well above 90% - 80% is an A) and every single member of the class of 11 will either achieve or exceed their predicted grade. They have offers from top universities (Oxford, Imperial etc) for 'good' degrees (Medicine, Physics, Mathematics, Chemistry). Many of the class have completed 4 A Levels, one of them 5 (6 AS) and all of these will be at A grade. One member of the class has been promoted a year. We take our gifted and talented provision very seriously and the students, as a whole, are offered a wealth of opportunities from highly motivated and well qualifed staff.

On my PGCE course (teacher training) there were 14 students. Two failed their first practice and were not offered jobs at states school and took up jobs at private schools (they also had the worst degrees). Only one other student took up a job in the private sector and she was very good, the rest of us just weren't interested and only looked at state. I find the assumption that private schools have better teachers quite offensive tbh.

I know not all state and private schools are created equal though. There are excellent state schools and poor privates schools and vice versa.

If it helps at all I know that several of my students have come from relatively wealthy backgrounds and their parents actively choose state school for them.

Honestly, I could go on and on.

Ds and dd both did french at their state primary, (ds also does latin at his state secondary not), lots of sports and recorder lessons for free, options of learning an instrument if you pay, and choir. Ds in his state secondary does lots of choir, singing lessons, can do other instruments, loads of sport outside school hours as well as the aforementioned latin in addition to french.

"now not "not"

The dcs went to French club when they were at state primary (which I paid for). They didn't actually learn any French, though - all they did was lots of colouring!!

just to clarify: at ds's state school we play for individual instrument tuition and after-school soccer club. PE lessons and French lessons are part of the curriculum; the choir too is free, as are various lunchtime clubs.

I won't be paying for extras (that sounds sooo rude) at all and I cannot wait to get my evenings and weekends back. All that time spent "topping them up" frankly is exhausting.
We'll have time for family hobbies again instead of trying to keep up and never quite making it.

I wonder if its something again that varies around the country - for eg thinking about it the primary schools round here won't be doing sports as they don't have anywhere to do them AFAIK. They just have a little playground.

Whereas in other parts of the country where land isn't worth such an enormous amount maybe they still have a field or something to do the sports in.

I'm sure standards do vary widely LTOS, which is another irritant ... I know most people get annoyed about SATS but it was at least an attempt to monitor teachers and standardise the curriculum.

you can still do sports on a small tacmac playground

that's where ds's school does football and cricket and rounders and whatever else they do

Don't they end up with a lot of road rash cory?

A bright child who wants to learn and who has supportive parents will learn anywhere. The cream will always rise to the top.

Universities aren't full of kids who went to private scools - they are there, of course, but they are vastly outnumbered by children who attended State secondary schools.

My DC's go to a primary which has been rated as 'outstanding' by ofsted - Juniors and Infants.

Academically it's not that great. My dd (9)who is bright but lazy isn't being stretched at all.

That said, she loves school sooooo much and is very streetwise and socially confident - the advantage of going to a good school in a socially diverse area.

I don't think it's worth busting a gut about. My dd is happy, she's literate, she reads, she has lots of interests. She likes herself.

She'll do OK, private school or not. Maybe if I had aspirations for her to do medicine or be a Fleet Street journo or join the BBC I'd feel differently. The way I feel now, as long as she's happy and has a job she likes that's good enough for me.

Re: there being better teachers in the private sector.... Actually a lot of teachers who can't cut it in the state sector end up taking refuge in private schools. Only the strong and the talented survive in the state sector these days.

Personally I think it all boils down to social selection and class sizes. If I could hive off 15 of the worst behaved children in my dd's class I'm sure the quality of her education would improve drastically overnight.......

My son's prep school doesn't charge for any activities, nor for books. We only pay for the one-to-one music lessons. And of course the termly fees.

According to Ofsted, state music lessons are indeed crap: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7867627.stm

And only 13% of state primary school pupils learn an instrument. www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/education/article1642625.ece

I'm not sure what the proportion is at prep schools but I would think in excess of 50%.

Yes but there's sport in the obstacle-race-desultory-half-an-hour-of-rounders-twice-a-week sort of way and there's sport taken very seriously. Sport wasn't terribly relevant to me as a child but DD (particularly) is very sporty. So it matters to her in a way that is quite fundamental. Doing a serious range of sports properly does help primary age children all to find different things they enjoy.

"She'll do OK, private school or not. Maybe if I had aspirations for her to do medicine or be a Fleet Street journo or join the BBC I'd feel differently."

And that is why the majority in those jobs are privately educated.
I have had many a sleepless night over this purely because an awful lot of the biggest prats i've come across in my lifetime were privately educated. I was better at the job, had more qualifications and better social skills and yet there they were managing me.
I agree that the vast majority of university places are filled by children from state school, well Golf Studies alone accounts for 60 students per year.
And yes the teachers who don't like having chairs thrown at them do "hide" in private schools where they can do their jobs rather than crowd control, who could blame them ?