AIBU to worry because I can't afford to privately educate my children?

[LaydeeStardust]

I hope this makes sense-I've had wine!

We've got 4 bright and happy children,aged 4 and up.

DS2 is 14, and is apparently extremely bright and attends our local inner city state school which gets average results

Both his own school teachers and two friends who teach at different private schools have told us that he should attend a private school to give him the best possible chances in life.

One of his teachers actually said we are letting him down by not sending him to a private school

We earn too little to pay for private education ourselves so he'd have to apply for an assisted place (we both work in social services and health)

we honestly believe in the state system,but maybe we can't really say that because we don't earn enough choose?

DS2's done his own research and is now worrying that he won't be able to get into a good uni, or get a good job etc if he doesnt go to a private school....and I don't know how to reassure him!!

I'd be so interested to hear other peoples' views on this-both me and DH went to state schools then uni, but if anyone feels I'm living in cloud cuckoo land to believe that our children will achieve whatever they want without a private education please tell me!!!

Thanks in advance!!

No - I'd say 'stay at the nice indie you're at where you can get excellent rounded grades'

I added playing a musical instrument and doing sports as it makes a child more confident and well rounded, esp if they are chosen in school teams (sad for child if never picked) not just for the sake of admissions.

Well, I was privately educated, and I can see the pros and cons. I think for kids who are bright, its good to be in an environment where lots of other kids are bright, and you are pushed a bit, but I also saw friends who crumbled under the strain, did hopelessly in their exams, then went back years later and obtained straight As in the same exams, which doesn't say a lot for the intensive private education we had.

At the same time, on paper you could say it worked for me: I got my 6 'A's at higher. But I DIDN'T get into my first choice uni, because my interview with them was very aggressive, where they assumed that I'd just chosen vet because I could, and they dismissed letters of recommendation from the vet I saw practice with and decided I was a spoilt rich girl (which couldn't be further from the truth- my parents made a lot of sacrifices to afford to send me to private school, and then had to pay out again because I didn't get into our local uni and had to move to the other side of the country to do my chosen course)So it can be a double edged sword.

I did get the grades I wanted at private school, but I suspect I would have got similar at state school, with the encouragement of my lovely parents. Socially, I found Private school a disaster- I hated and detested the cliques and social hierarchy nonsense. I have only 2 friends from secondary school, and now I have moved back to my home town, I find it hard that the mums in MY kid's class al know each other, and I know people only from primary school.

I will be educating my kids in the stae system, unless they come to the point where it is obvious they need more

ah I see, that's the theory is it... I was crap at both so they had the opposite effect on me (made me less confident and more bitter )

I went to a top comprehensive and was in top sets for everything, but was not stretched. If your child is bright I can't see how an average comprehensive can even come close to meeting his potential. Average really is not very good at all.

I much preferred the FE college I went to for sixth form, freedom to do as much as I wanted - A Levels in Physics but also Philosophy, Maths but also Politics.

My DS goes to private school, and even at the age of 6 he was well ahead of a friend's child at an 'Outstanding' state primary school. More generally there is far more opportunity to experience things, and a general culture of working hard and doing stuff (you will play a musical instrument, you will learn Latin, you will play competitive sports several days a week, etc. - or at least that is the presumption).

At some point, all children (not just the bright ones) have to take responsibility for their own learning. The degree to which a school (independent or otherwise) facilitates this is difficult to gauge. It may even be that it is attributable to individual teachers.

We all have our stories to tell and there is no doubt that our own educational experiences colour the decisions that we make on behalf of our children. The question is, should they?

A couple of questions from someone who only has a 2yo which have come from recent posts!

How do you "send your child to the best state school in the area"? You don't get to choose do you, there are all sorts of hoops to jump through like moving house or taking up religion to get them to the "right" one normally? Have I missed something?

Do they not normally do foreign language, sport and music at state schools? Why the need to supplement for these which quite a few people have mentioned?

Do they not normally do foreign language, sport and music at state schools? Why the need to supplement for these which quite a few people have mentioned?

Dunno about nowadays but there was very little sport, no music save for cacophonous recorder playing and no foreign language teaching at my state primary schools.

It's impossible to compare results from state schools with independent schools because most decent independent schools (and probably some of the better grammars) sit IGCSEs which are widely recognised to be more demanding that GCSEs and they don't sit General Studies or soft A levels in order to bump up their points score.

I've never moaned about the school fees nor have I heard any of my children's friends' parents moan about the school fees. In fact I would go so far as to say that my sons' indpendent school is extremely good value for money. And I'm grateful to them even though I've paid.

LTOS - you poor innocent you ... Just you wait.

People check out league tables and move into catchment areas of desirable schools to improve their chances. People hire tutors to get into state grammar schools. People suddenly rediscover catholicism. People rent houses in catchment areas when it comes to make applications. It's a mad dog-eat-dog world out there in the state system (and not much better in the independent sector) and I BLAME the government for all this foolishness.

"Do they not normally do foreign language, sport and music at state schools? Why the need to supplement for these which quite a few people have mentioned?"

No they pretty much don't do any languages sports or music at state primary schools. Unfortunately.

quattro.

My friends are all at the eagerly chatting to the priest every sunday stage and one has rented in catchment.

We were foolish enough to buy a house which we liked in a lovely quiet road before we thought about all this. We are not going to move. My DH may have to discover the word of the lord at some point soon if we are to get into a primary school within walking distance....

Yes the middle class angst is kicking in here bigtime. It was the glib "just send them to the best state school" which had me thinking there was some trick up their sleeve that I had missed!

Why don't they do languages at state schools though? With sport I guess they sold all the land off and music is expensive - is that it?

On the music in state schools point - this thread in active convos says it all about the music provision in state primary schools. Dire isn't in it. Our state school offered piano lessons (paid for) and recorder lessons (free). Our independent offered any instrument you fancy, with a junior school orchestra, violin group, woodwind group and two choirs.

On the sports point, my local state primary offered two/three sessions of PE a week with the emphasis on non-competitive sports. Swimming lessons in years 3&4 with most children able to swim a length (!!) at the end of the time. Contrast this with the local independent which offers five sessions of sport a week, with additional after-hours clubs for netball/tennis/hockey/swimming/athletics/rugby/cricket regular matches and fixtures etc.

There was no foreign language provision at all in the local state primary. Seems shocking to me but it is the norm. The local independent has french lessons from years 4-6, a french club, spanish club and german club.

The is supposed to be a recorder group in my childs school at lunchtime held by the headteacher. It's never taken place despite us all buying recorders. They are willing but the teachers just do not have the time.
French is dropped in year 2, so they learn from age 4 to 6 and then nothing until 11 again.
It's all so hit and miss.

Hmm well this is all very interesting...

I hate to contribute this, but I think there's something to OP's worries. It is harder to reach elite levels in most professions if you come out of state schools.

I used to work in a top science dept. at a University (not Russell Brand group Uni, but still the largest and best dept. for its subject in the UK).
After many years of working there I suddenly realised that nearly ALL the PhD students, RAs and lecturers (and grades above lecturer) had come out of private education. It shocked me hugely. I'm not native British so I hadn't clocked the accents / class thing sooner. I should have realised much earlier, the day I heard a PhD student joking about his plumber's habits, and "people of that sort" or some phrasing like that -- I took the piss out of his words the moment he said it and everybody else in the group (mostly beer-swilling PhDs) silently ignored my pisstake like I was the one being extraordinarily rude.

Both DH and I came out of mediocre state schools; it's quite likely DC will attend the same sort of schools, too. DH & I are both high achievers in our own way, at least.

Teenage DD of friends has just dropped out of York Uni and says that she will do an Open University degree instead; I reckon that she has closed off a lot of doors by not staying with the elite Uni. I hope that I'm wrong & it works out for her.

I've just read through the whole thread and I'm grateful for all the useful and quite specific advice people have taken the trouble to give-thanks!

I do feel reassured now, and a bit less like I'm letting DS2 -and the other 3!-down by not being able to afford private ed.

The school DS2 attends does get average results-(ie around 50% achieve 5 a-c gcses), and does have some very challenging pupils who are disruptive in lessons,

But on the plus side,they seem quite good at meeting individual children's needs, DS2 does get stretched - he's getting to study a third language and will hopefully be starting to study for an A level in year 10 because he's taken the GCSE in the subject this year. He gets stretched because he is very proactive in asking for challenging things to do, and we back him up when necessary by talking to the school-ie to negotiate his being allowed to study a third language

Outside of school, he and the other three get to do lots of interesting stuff like music lessons, sports clubs, theatre, cinema....and just messing around in the garden a lot ....so that keeps them all interested!

I think me and DH have done well enough on state school and then uni, although we aren't in high paid jobs (public sector and all that) not that I'm complaining-feel lucky just to have jobs in this current climate.

Thanks again for all the advice and comments.. I'll use all this helpful information to make plans and reassure my boy!

If you know you've done your best that's all anyone can ask of you DC's or anyone else.

Our local state school does IGCSE for some subjects and also offers International Baccalaureate as alternative to A levels....

Other state schools I know are following this route too.

YABU- I went to private school and it fucked me up emotionally.
Grades are not all. I loved the comp I went to before the hellhole!
Fear not, your kids will be fine either way!

If you really feel that you want to push them then you could get a personal tutor but as a teacher and ime- pressurising kids isn't always the solution.

I don't know what the evidence is that they "pretty much don't do sports, music or languages at state primary schools." Is there any actual data for this? My personal and anecdotal evidence certainly suggests the opposite.

My friend has just sent her ds to private school, and was raving about the fact that they had seperate teachers for music and science and art. I didn't have the heart to tell her that my dd has that too- at the local primary

Not sure about across the board, but my dd does sports, music and will soon have the opportunity to do languages at her state primary

i think depending on where you live - you are doomed.

although morally - I don't countenance a 2 or 3 tier education system - i can quite happily say that from a soapbox where i have never had the money to do otherwise.

i think should my childrens children have the opportunity to go private and they needed my help - i would try to help them.

it certainly does afford one more opportunities - or else theres kinda no point to them existing.

Private tuition has been mentioned several times and I'd back that up as a really useful tool. All children are different. They all have different strengths and weaknesses. Therefore what may be best for one child wouldn't be for another, anyway. We paid for private tuition in the run up to GCSE for one of our children in one subject, and it was well worth the money. You can pick the tutor to suit your child, rather than just having whoever happens to teach your child. You can pay all the school fees you like and still end up with teachers who aren't the best for your child - you have no control over timetabling and who gets which class! We've used both state and private sectors, and tbh if you're spending money, it's better spent on one to one tuition, for maybe a fixed time period, in the run up to exams or whatever. With school fees you're paying the whole caboodle for teaching salaries (even though your child may not get the best teachers!), other staff wages, books,maintenance of buildings, subsidising the social events.... It's easy to feel you're buying into something better because it's human nature to want to get value for money, but tbh, if you have a bright child they will do fine in a good state school

Jooly - why didn't you have the heart to tell her? I'm sure she'd have been interested. Maybe your friend's local primary didn't offer the same things as yours?