To think this country is sooooo un-child friendly

[imanidiot]

That's it really.

Wherever you go with kids it seems like they get scorned, frowned at or told to be quiet.

I.e. in a well known noodles restaurant, beginning with a W....and DD was in the entrance foyer. She was playing with a relative (a grown up) when a man who worked there told her to shhhhh. (she was not in anyones way and away from the diners) He was making fruit juices with an industrial juice maker FGS - which was way more noisy and the place was full of toddlers!

I cant stand this country's unfriendliness towards children. I get that overly noisy children shouting or running around is annoying, I understand that is annoying in restaurants, I take DD out or bring lots of books and crayons to keep her distracted, but please!

I feel like complaining! I guess it's just when someone tells your child off

and the thing about 'others' saying/ telling off a child I find quite helpful and to be fair some of my English friends will do that, and obviously done appropriately to keep the child safe and establish boundaries

I find most places are extremely child friendly and that the UK is much more child friendly than it was 30 years ago. Libraries let children talk and have stories read to them and have a pile of kids books in the adults department (well our do). There are loads of after school activities put on by council leasure centres and individuals eg gymnastics. There are children's bands they can join, museums and art galleries are increasingly child friendly.
OK some restaurants aren't very child friendly, but some children aren't very "other diner" friendly, and pubs and restaurants do have to look after the wants of all their customers not just ones with children who think their kids should wail and scream through everyone else's meal.
I've rarely found a problem finding somewhere to take the kids to eat, but didn't eat out much when they were small as it wasn't much fun for anyone.
The waiter here sounds OTT, but I thinkkkk Britain does quite well on the child friendly front. Most people only look at restaurants and compare us to the med countries on that. If you lived in a med country you'd miss all the non-restaurant child friendly bits we have and other countries don't.

I have to say that I have always found this country quite child friendly and have always eaten out even when they are small, without problems. However we have always made sure that they are not annoying others.

Laquitar, did not think you were attcking me.

I just added the bit about the old men as although I obviously have to adapt to the culture (as do my dcs) I just think kissing a toddler on the mouth is a bit unhygienic, in a country where I know there is a lot of TB etc. But they do it and I can't stop them, other than by being what they see as rude. And FWIW my dcs haven't been sick once here.

Actually I did ask a taxi driver not to give the dcs choc - he didn't give it but he lectured me for the whole journey on how it's not a problem and his kids have sweets and fizzy drinks every day! Bit tricky - I don't want to stomp on a culture but at this rate my dcs will leave here with no teeth.

2Rebecca,
i agree with your post apart from the bit that the waiter was odd. I still can't see how saying 'shhh' is telling off.

Piscemoon,
i could have written your post. Me too, since i ve discovered mn i am very careful what i say and too scared to touch a baby .
I didn't know you are MIL, this is another thing i have notice here: posters always say 'oh but in Med countries they have extended families, isn't it lovely'? Yes, but it takes lot compromising. It is take and give. When i go home i have free babysitting from mum and mil. But i also have to accept that they do some things differently, i have to cook bbq when i m not in mood, or take them to hospital apptm when i would rather sleep. Thats life and thats extended families.You cant have everything in your terms and then say 'oh but in other countries...' when you ban your mil from seeing the dc because she gave them apple pie on sunday!

I'm not a MIL yet-but I have 3 DSs and since reading mumsnet live in dread of the DIL who wants my DS without parents, grandparents, brothers, cousins etc! Lip service is paid as in 'I want DC to have a relationship with grandma' but then the relationship has to be entirely on DIL terms. I am heartened by the fact that in RL people seem quite happy with their ILs, and I get on well with DSs girlfriends. It is when I read that MIL is 'selfish' to want to see her grandchild in the first few days that I get alarmed! A jocular remark of 'I've not come to see you-I've come to see my baby' is taken seriously and gives offence. Both sides have to give and take.

I have amended my behaviour. I went off on my bike this morning and stopped to let a dad go by with his double buggy and twin DSs-I didn't know him. I bit back my cheery comment of 'Good morning-I see you have double trouble!' because I could see it on mumsnet as 'why do people think my lovely twins are difficult?' or 'why do people say such predictable things, as if we haven't heard it all before'. It would have just been friendly. Instead I played safe and said 'Good morning-lovely day'. Although on mumsnet there was a whole thread on 'why do people always talk about the weather?' so perhaps I should have stuck to 'good morning'!

I think that people should just go with the friendliness and not analyse everything!

]
You can not win.

Afternoon ladies and gents

I would like to update you all with something.

The well known chain called me back. And a very very very friendly manager spoke to me.

I DID say to her I think I may have overreacted, that if my DD was doing something that was wrong or that I didn't see then I understand, and that he probably didn't mean anything by it. I did also state that I understood their policies about children not running around (they could get hurt etc) and that I would not want to think that my DD was causing a problem.

But she was lovely and she understood my pov, and I feel much better now because I didn't go in guns blazing, she was very lovely indeed, and I do actually really like that well known family noodle chain. And I am sorry if I was OTT about it all. I know why I was annoyed but I was OTT. (And I didn't send the original email, that was just me getting emotive. I sent one that was much simpler - so I am NOT BARMY!).

I was worried because I didnt want this to go unsaid. I do actually like this restaurant

I hope this makes sense, but I just wanted to let you all know all this, because I thought it wouldn't be right not to update you with it.

I always find that if you complain in a friendly manner it gets you much further.

Don't know why you are getting so worked up about someone saying 'shh' to your daughter. I would much rather live in a society where other adults were not afraid to hush my noisy child. I wouldn't take it as an affront to my parenting, but rather as duchesse says, a back-up to it.

OP just seen your last post - glad you feel better.

Sorry, only read the OP and a few posts but I would never take DS to wagamamas. i used to go there ALL the time, and have never thought of it as human friendly, let alone child friendly!

EVERY time I've been there the service has been truly awful (and I went to many many of them in London)

I haven't been to any outside London because the set up, the noise and the general feeling of the place just isn't child friendly IMO.

but then I love pizza, so pizza pizza express is never a problem for me

meant to add - YABU (obviously)

You child was being noisy in a restaurant. Child friendly is one thing, expecting a room full of people to put up with a screaming noisy toddler is not.

I tell other people's children to shush, be careful, not to walk backwards etc etc... get used to it, it's going to happen more and more.

well i would have to say i dont think the op is being unreasonable to be upset by the man telling her dd to Shhhhh, i certainly wouldnt put up with it.

I have a DD who is 7 and we have always taken her out to dinner with us and she is very well behaved however she will have her moments as we all do but it is down to me to deal with that not someone who is a stranger to me and my DD.
I dont have a problem with family and close friends telling dd off when she is being naughty but NOT a stranger.

So Op i dont think you are being unreasonable at all. You have explained yourself very well and apologised for your DD making a noise for a minute when you didnt need too all children make noise and i think it is unreasonable to expect them not too. and yes it is up to you who tells your DD to shhhhhh and you alone nobody else.

' yes it is up to you who tells your DD to shhhhhh and you alone nobody else. '

Why?!!
I tell children off who are misbehaving and have no intention of stopping. Society would be a much better place if people acted as a community and were't frightened to intervene. I am polite.

This is why you get children mistakenly believing 'you can't tell me off, you are not my mummy'. Simply not true!

I read this thread with interest as I have moved from Singapore with a small baby and was fully expecting the UK to be such a child un-friendly place compared to Singapore, which is incredibly family oriented.

So far two months in I've not met any problems and only positive experiences with all sorts of people. The only arsiness is when I've stopped to breastfeed in motorway service stations and have had lots of look n point/tutting. But I have that sort of face, so I doubt anyone would have complained.

In Singapore, for all it's child-centeredness, some people get funny about public breastfeeding and there aren't the same free playgroup facilities for everyone, partly because the extended family provides the social setting.

Back to W*as. It depends on whether you think others can castigate your PFBs. I think there is a line, they are members of society and in a public place so I think a shhh is acceptably on the right side of that line. I would get inwardly pissed off that someone shhhed my child, but that's an emotional reaction. I think that a knackered and stressed booker/waiter (believe me, a knackering and stressy job if ever there was) found it bothered him and didn't think twice to shh. No laying on of hands or really ripping into her, just a shhh. Annoying, but no big deal either.

So I wouldn't complain. I expect that at some point someone will tell my daughter to shhh if she's being rambunctious.

Hi Doris
I liked your post.

TBH I think I was being emotional about it. That's me though.

I think the thing that really annoyed me was that I wouldn't normally allow my DD to do that (although I'd just like to stress she wasnt running around the restaurant) she was waiting in the foyer. And I was heading back over there. She wasn't screaming either.

I can see why he did it. I was annoyed, I don't agree with everyone telling children off. Ok so maybe he wasn't really telling her off, I can't explain exactly why I was annoyed, but I was. I understand their place in society and respect for adults. This man just got my back up completely. I guess you'd have to be there to see it. Plus it was a hot day/stressful etc etc.

But it was interesting to see your POV about it and thank you for not completely ripping into me

And by the way, the lady at W*** was v.nice about it. Even though she didn't have to be.

Ray81,
'it' s up to you and nobody else' when you are in your own house. This 'stranger' happens to work in the restaurant you visit. The place is not your property. If you want your own rules stay home. All this 'my rules' is so childish.

imanidiot - it was nice of them to apologise, because the server wasn't exactly welcoming was he, and your kid is also a customer, which is worth remembering. It didn't sound as if she was horrid to be around, just a little noisy (although the server probably wasn't of that view )

I think this a tricky issue and debate could go on for ever. I can see both sides.

I do sometimes speak to other children if the parent is not around or doesn't seem to be doing anything. I've had some mini-confrontations over this though - I once told a little boy (nicely, reasonably, not shouting at him or anything) to stop shaking the see-saw because my dd (then only about 18 months) was about to fall off. His mum (who was ignoring him on the other side of the park up to that point) came charging over and told me not to speak to her boy like that, he's only little etc.

On the other hand I have one friend who seems to jump on my dcs' backs before giving me a chance to step in or finding out what's actually going on. She has a rule of only eating at the table, and the other day my 3yr old got down from the table with a plate of biscuits and was immediately told firmly to go back. She had wanted to hand the biscuits around the adults which I thought was quite sweet and I felt a bit for her.

The UK is not unchild friendly. You can take children with you nearly everywhere in the UK.

However, just because children are welcome that does not give the or their parents the license to disturb others. Children need to learn that there is a time and place for shrieking and rushing around, and a time and place to stay still and be quiet. And their parents are the ones to teach them that

Actually I'd have been a little bit annoyed, because if he was going to get involved then just saying 'shhhh' is lazy and quite rude.

And I'm not being PFB, I'd have NO problem if in the same situation he said 'could you be a bit quieter please, I can't hear the phone/that's too noisy for me/etc'.

But to just shhhh does seem rude and not CUSTOMER friendly, never mind whether the customer in question is a child or an adult. I wouldn't have complained, but I'd have probably talked to DD about it right there in front of him, like this:
'DD, you need to be a little bit quieter now we are inside. You are making too much noise for the waiter, perhaps it is hurting his head and so he forgot about being polite when he asked you to be quieter when we are in a space with lots of people it's important to think about how they feel about what we are doing.'

I don't think Ssssh is rude. It's a fairly gentle way of asking someone to be quiet, especially if he's trying to do his job and quieten noisy children.
Did your parents never Shhh you?
I Shhh'd my kids if they were noisy when young. Quicker and easier than your suggested patronising monologue. If I was with a child and a waiter had to Shhh my child I'd feel ashamed that I hadn't quietened them myself, not make a passive aggressive comment to the child about it.

I think in the context of a waiter, employed to serve customers politely, a shhh is rude.

I don't generally shhhhh people. If I want a child to be quiet I tell them why I want them to be quiet. That way they know how to apply it again.

The wink was meant to imply that the conversation with 'my DD' was a bit toungue in cheek. But I would talk to her about why tshe needed to be quiet not just expect her to know.