To think this country is sooooo un-child friendly

[imanidiot]

That's it really.

Wherever you go with kids it seems like they get scorned, frowned at or told to be quiet.

I.e. in a well known noodles restaurant, beginning with a W....and DD was in the entrance foyer. She was playing with a relative (a grown up) when a man who worked there told her to shhhhh. (she was not in anyones way and away from the diners) He was making fruit juices with an industrial juice maker FGS - which was way more noisy and the place was full of toddlers!

I cant stand this country's unfriendliness towards children. I get that overly noisy children shouting or running around is annoying, I understand that is annoying in restaurants, I take DD out or bring lots of books and crayons to keep her distracted, but please!

I feel like complaining! I guess it's just when someone tells your child off

include her age in the letter too - that's very relevant. hell of a difference between a noisy 2 year old and a noisy 10 year old.

I think compared to counties like: spain, portugal and Greece we are unfriendly towards children but I do think it's getting better, albeit slowly.

However, it is very noticeable how badly behaved British children are compared to their european counterparts - but that's probably because they are used to eating out with their families.

Well I've sent it now and basically it says that my problem was with the fact he should have spoken to the adult.

I do like this particular restaurant, but the one I go to does get a bit funny with kids sometimes. It depends which staff are there.

I think we are so unfriendly compared to the continent.

On the continent children are included in eating out,which I love. I love taking my daughter out with me, I like her to eat the adults foods and to be amongst adults and understand that you are part of the community, but that also the whole attention isn't on you.

It's just that when you do that here, you don't get much respect for doing it. And to be honest, sometimes its from the other diners as well.

In the US kids are welcomed and they don't take centre stage in restaurants, however, they are part of it. (Does that make sense??? I'm sorry I'm tired, been looking after poorly child today!)

What's wrong with an adult saying "shh" to a child?

I really don't get that. Children are not sacrosant. Adults they don't know can say "Shh" to them. It's not like he said Shut up or anything worse is it?

This is why this country is deemed 'un-child friendly' IMHO because parents think their children shouldn't be spoken to directly if their behaviour / noise level is deemed too much.

I take this back if the man was rude in any way of course, but that's not what it sounds like

There are plenty of restaurants in the U.S that aren't at all child friendly.

I have never ever found this country to be unfriendly towards children and I have three noisy ones!

In fact I think the opposite - that children are indulged too much and noisy unsocial behaviour is tolerated too much.

None of us can comment on your case as we were not there so don't know whether your dd was being a nuisance or not.

It is natural to get your hackles up if someone else reprimands your child, whether they should be reprimanded (by a parent) or not.

I would love to hear how they reply to your letter

Because it's not his child, because there were other adults there. (I mean ME, her mum) And I do teach my child to be respectful of adults, but, sometimes, just because it is an adult telling you off, doesn't mean it's right.

I think it was the boundary he crossed. Not many people would like their child to be told off, in front of them, if the adult was perfectly capable of speaking to the adult with them.

I wouldn't tell another child off if it's parent was there (that is, unless the child was doing something absolutely awful, i.e. beating up my child, kicking me, spitting me etc and the parent was doing nothing about it.)

I do not think the continent is more baby or child friendly than the UK. Ever seen a decent high chair or baby changing facilities in Italy? No. We were staying in a hotel in Lake Garda last year and I could not believe how unfriendly and intolerant the staff were towards children.

Sorry but I really think you're wrong on this. It sounds like your friend was getting your child over-excited in a restaurant. You yourself admit that she is 'loud'. The waiter said shh.

I am kind of amazed that you bothered to complain and consider this an example of an unchild friendly practice.

I think there are some simple rules to taking a child to eat, even in Wagamamas - You don't wind a child up in a restaurant. A child in a restaurant sits at the table and talks in a normal voice. If they want to play and shriek they're taken out. If an adult wants to play with them take them out.

Speaking to the child with them, it should read.....

And I dont tolerate my child being noisy or unsociable in public - in fact I've done transatlantic flights with her and been told how good she was by other members of the public on the flight(that was a good day though )

Thunderduck, sorry about the generalisation, I should say where I have visited in the states.

Sweetfall, I think you'll find that is what I've said in my earlier posts.

I take books and toys with me, I take her out if she is loud, I tell her to be quieter if she is noisy.

We weren't even seated, we were in the foyer.

When she sat down, she ate her dinner and was very well behaved.

Believe it or not, I know the simple rules.

I have found the best trick with little ones is to find the places which are genuinely child friendly (usually one off places rather than chains IME) and stick to them.

TBH I don't find it very relaxing at all eating out with DD (2) in tow though, wherevever we are, and really would rather give it a miss...

Let us know what they say in response to your letter!

We were in Greece for a few days last week and went to a restaurant with DD - the waitress picked her up and then took her off to the kitchen for all the other staff to coo and fuss over - we didn't see her for an hour....it was great!

I really don't agree about European children being better behaved than British ones. It's true, yes, that they are included in restaurant outings, nights out etc, but behave well? Here in Italy, the kids run absolute bloody riot in restaurants, to the extent of endangering themselves...and no-one says a word, not the parents, not the people who are trying to work, not the other customers...if anyone (like me so much as tuts, they all trot out the "but they're children" (so what can you do?....) excuse....Erm, so is mine, but she bloody well sits down and behaves in a restaurant.

And she has a loud voice, not that she shrieks all the time. She is loud when she talks.

My main point is another person telling my child off, when it was only for less than a minute, we weren't even seated, and my relative was with her. And she was told to be quiet after that.

well if that's true then why did your friend purposefully get a loud child over-excited in the foyer which is part of the restaurant?

and why get cross at someone saying Shh

I'm not being purposefully argumentative I just don't understand it if you say you know the 'simple rules' why get upset when they weren't being followed and there was a reaction from a staff member who you have now officially complained about.

I mean you complained about someone saying Shh to a 2 year old. I don't get that!

So its just another adult telling your child how to behave. This one divides parents. Personally I'm always grateful for it when another adult reinforces correct modes of behaviour and children always seem to listen more and react quicker.

If the adult was rude, shouting or aggressive or touched your child different matter altogether and deserves a reaction

Yeah I definately do not agree with children running around. I created a rod for my own back in the past when I let my DD get down from her seat, and I will NOT do that again.

It's bad manners also, and they need to learn to be seated. And when it gets tricky, you take them outside. Then bribe them with ice-cream when you get back in

I would worry about something hot getting spilt on them.

I guess I mean they are friendlier to children, from my experience, on the continent. In Cyprus, they loved DD and would talk to her and make a fuss of her. Its just nice to see that friendliness - maybe it's all the sun

I'm not grateful for another adult telling my child off, unless it's close family or friends i.e. when they are looking after her, or helping me out.

I just don't think it's right anyone telling your child off. That's my job. That's why he shouldn't have spoken to me. I think the respect should be there for adults, but that doesnt mean anyone can tell your child off. I do realise that if your child does something wrong, i.e. at school or whereever then, yes, there needs to be a respect for authority.

My DD did get over-excited, but then she calmed down and I told her to be quiet. I did not realise she was getting wound up until I went back over to see what was going on (part of the group was already seated, my DD was with my relative who was waiting for the rest to arrive). I would not have let her do that, but that still doesn't mean it was right for the man to tell her to be quiet.

Sorry "he should have spoken to me"

I'd scrap that entire letter. It sounds whiny and precious and, having managed a restaurant, we'd just whip out our standard 'apologize to hysterical mother' template - yep, our office actually had a document called that and be done with it.

'My main point is another person telling my child off, when it was only for less than a minute, we weren't even seated, and my relative was with her. And she was told to be quiet after that. '

Telling someone, 'Shhh' is hardly telling them off.

I don't understand getting so worked up about something like that.

I didn't send that letter BTW. It was changed

I'm over it now. No one seems to get my point.Its just me, I'm hysterical, whiny. etc etc etc etc.Maybe I was just getting too worked up. I've dropped it, I'm over and done with, just my opinion and I'm obviously wrong!!!

I'm sorry if I'm the only one who doens't like it.....

Can we end the thread now and talk about perhaps, I don't know, Peter Andre and jordan breaking up???? Or that Ugly Betty is back?!

is this your first child?

Actually I think it takes a village to raise a child. The price of that is interference in the parent's sacrosanct role. The payoff is having many pairs of eyes to look after your child, even when you're having a bad day. In my eyes the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. One thing that really is evident in the UK is the utter resistance of some parents to any attempt at contributing to their child's upbringing. We live in society and frankly I don't see anything wrong with society (ie other people) intervening from time to time if we parents are not feeling up to/ not willing to assist our children to develop in society. Utter resistance to any outside "interference" breeds little monsters whose parents will back them to the hilt even if they are doing seriously stupid things (thinking about 12-16 yr olds here rather than 2 yr olds, obviously).

I still stand by my original thought, that there a great many more tetchy people in the UK than in other countries on the whole. But I think that parental resistance to any attempts to assist, however well-meant, lies at the root of this tetchiness towards children. I'm an "intervener" and you wouldn't believe the aggression from the parents (eg 7 yr old deliberately hurling popcorn straight in my face from row in front in cinema- my telling her not to prompted outpourings of four letter words from the supposed "adult" in charge of her- clearly a nutcase). It's enough to put anyone off stopping little Johnny from running in front of a taxi, frankly.

Oh goodness. It must be my first because of my reaction, right?