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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this country is sooooo un-child friendly

139 replies

imanidiot · 27/06/2009 14:37

That's it really.

Wherever you go with kids it seems like they get scorned, frowned at or told to be quiet.

I.e. in a well known noodles restaurant, beginning with a W....and DD was in the entrance foyer. She was playing with a relative (a grown up) when a man who worked there told her to shhhhh. (she was not in anyones way and away from the diners) He was making fruit juices with an industrial juice maker FGS - which was way more noisy and the place was full of toddlers!

I cant stand this country's unfriendliness towards children. I get that overly noisy children shouting or running around is annoying, I understand that is annoying in restaurants, I take DD out or bring lots of books and crayons to keep her distracted, but please!

I feel like complaining! I guess it's just when someone tells your child off

OP posts:
Original poster
imanidiot · 27/06/2009 17:06

what's this village or Island style - is is Magaluf or Palma Nova? Maybe I should take desimorondeelatutu III there next year?

OP posts:
piscesmoon · 27/06/2009 17:06

This was the last thread on it. I think everyone agreed that it wasn't on to put fingers in a baby's mouth! The rest was more controversial.
touch my baby

CallMeMalcolm · 27/06/2009 17:08

i think that parents cant take a HINy of criticism about their kids
GET OVER IT

Original poster
imanidiot · 27/06/2009 17:09

I'm so over it I'm thinking of whether to watch trisha or jerry springer tonite...

OP posts:
piscesmoon · 27/06/2009 17:09

Second one strangers putting grubby hands in pram
I think it says it all!

expatinscotland · 27/06/2009 17:10

I'm still not seeing where saying, 'shhh' is telling someone off.

Original poster
imanidiot · 27/06/2009 17:10

Seriously though posters. I do understand what you are saying and points taken on board, hence the whole AIBU thread. I understand I may have been being unreasonable.

Thank you for you input.

I'M OVER IT.

OP posts:
sweetfall · 27/06/2009 17:11

you're a funny lady idiot

sweetfall · 27/06/2009 17:12

that reads wrong

I meant

'iamanidiot' - you are a funny lady

Original poster
imanidiot · 27/06/2009 17:15

I'm quite bruised by the bashing I have received by the members of mumsnet. Seriously, big dents in my arms, legs, head....

I do understand what you are saying. I think I overreacted. I didn't at first, but I now.

But I was giggling just a wee bit at my responses. At least it cheered me up after a stressful week. Hope you all have a good weekend

OP posts:
piscesmoon · 27/06/2009 17:23

It is nice to have someone who listens imanidiot and takes the points on board-it is very refreshing! You don't actually have to agree, but at least you can understand the alternate view. The problem is that parents, in this country, like control. They want people to be child friendly on their terms but it doesn't work like that-people want to be child friendly on their own terms. Parents have to make up their mind which they want and then not moan about the other-you can't have both!

Original poster
imanidiot · 27/06/2009 17:25

No I do understand. It's a very tricky and emotive subject.

I do take it on board

OP posts:
pointydog · 27/06/2009 18:00

good man, idiot

Laquitar · 27/06/2009 18:29

I ve spend half my life leaving in Southern Europe where my roots are and i always find these threads interesting.

  • First of all i don't think uk is child un-friendly. I agree with the poster who said you wont find highchairs etc in Italy. I think the family facilities in uk are fab. Also the health and safety reagarding children-ok a bit over the top maybe, but better than south europe.
  • The story about the waitress in Greece made me smile. I know what you mean, i lived there. BUT...can you imagine if this had happened here We would call it 'child abuse' and 'child abduction'.
  • Yes in Southern Europe the Restaurants are full of children. BUT everybody can tell them off. Do you think an Italian/Spanish/Greek mother would write a letter because the waiter said 'shhh'? I ve heard much worst and the parents said 'tell him off'.
  • He just said 'shhh', is not big deal.

What people mean by 'child-friendly' society? That i take my children out but nobody dares to speak to them, if someone says 'shhh' to them he should loose his job, and if someone touches them and i m in a bad mood i call the police? So child-friendly only when it suits me?

I feel sorry for restaurant staff and shop assistants in uk. Too much over-analysing and over-reacting from parents side tbh.

pointydog · 27/06/2009 18:30

I don't thinbk the uk is un-child friendly either but laq's perspective is good

ginormoboobs · 27/06/2009 18:43

YABU
She was noisy and was asked to shhh. It really is not a big deal.
Maybe if the adult who was with her had asked her to calm down then the member of staff wouldn't have felt the need to ask.
Noisy children are annoying. An adult encouraging a child to be noisy is very annoying.
I have a 2.5yo and no way would I be offended by someone asking her to shhh if she was being noisy.

hambler · 27/06/2009 18:43

sweetfall I am SO with you on how much I appreciate the judicious stern glance/look from another adult when my kids are getting out of hand.

They (the children)do take it better from another adult, don't they?

baskingseals · 27/06/2009 22:13

YANBU at all, I find the British attitude towards their children and other people's really bewildering and actually quite sad. Other cultures seem to appreciate the innocence and fleetingness of childhood, and actually enjoy the company of children, and have reasonable expectations of acceptable behaviour. Here on our cold little island the pervading attitude seems to be the Victorian adage of 'Children should be seen and not heard'. God we're a miserable lot. We miss the point - it's all about family, all members, all generations spending time together, yes shock horror eating out in restuarants or would you prefer a nice ready meal for one at home in front of the telly?

piscesmoon · 27/06/2009 22:26

Have you read the whole thread baskingseals? In other countries parents have a more relaxed attitude altogether-they don't get upset when 'strangers'take an interest in their baby.

KTNoo · 27/06/2009 22:48

iamanidiot, my 3 yr old dd is developing a good line in bursting into floods of tragic tears if anyone other than me tells her off (if I do it she just gives me the metaphorical finger) and this always makes the adult feel instantly guilty and eat their words. Maybe you could do some coaching with your dd before you go back again?

The other side of the coin is where I live in North Africa where children can do whatever they want, no one seems to have a problem with them charging up and down yelling in restuarants, they just seem to rejoice in their youthful energy. I'm going to struggle when I go home. Some things are great, e.g. today the waiter took dd away for about 20 mins and left me in peace. When she came back her hands were full of dead crabs . On the other hand I'm getting a bit fed up with taxi drivers handing my dcs half-melted chocolate which they procedd to wipe all over their school uniform (dcs not complaining though....)

KTNoo · 27/06/2009 22:50

Also not too ecstatic when the old men come and kiss my toddler on the mouth....

Laquitar · 27/06/2009 23:53

Ok, shall i explain some 'myths' re Britain v S.Europe?

  • British parents are more strict regarding house rules and routines (diet, nap times...). However parents in S. Europe tell their dc off more offen, have no problem with other people telling them off and smacking is quite common.
  • Parenting is more relaxing which is a good thing most of the times but i have to say that i have witnessed many accidents involving cildren that wouldn't happen in uk.
  • Children there go everywhere (Restaurants, weddings..) and they are very welcome BUT they have to fit in with the place/activity rather than the place/activity fit around the children. You will not hear a mum saying 'i think my brother or friend should change the time of his wedding because doesn't suit my child's routine'.

In fact in many places you cant even ask people not to smoke in your house near your baby, it is very rude to do so (my mum told me off when i did ).

  • Yes, people talk to your child and give them presents and treats. BUT you wouldn't dare saying 'don't give my child sugar, ask my permision first' it would be very rude there. And if you say 'don't touch my baby before you ask me' they will call the psychatrist.
  • It is a myth that babies/children there come first. Yes they adore them, kiss them a lot etc but they don't come first. Elderly come first. The older the person the higher his position in society. Noway that the routine of a 5 mnths old baby will come before a 70 yrs old person. Or you wouldnt say there 'the old f...ing woman touched my baby'.

In general they adore children and accept them everywhere but they dont expect the world to change in order to accomodate a baby or toddler. They expect the baby/toddler to fit in naturally. It is not 'too hot, too cold, too dangerous, too sugary, too traumatising for my child'.

In other words it is not more 'child centered ' there, not in the way that some people here mean it. I couldn't say that it is better here or there because some things better there and others better here.

Soooo sory for the loooong post but i ve read many of these threads and had to write

Laquitar · 27/06/2009 23:59

KTN,

i was typing when you post about the old man. I ve just read it now after i posted mine. I hope you don't think it was personal attack

piscesmoon · 28/06/2009 07:38

I agree Laquitar-I get so cross with these threads because it really means the DC rules and society has to think they are all 'wonderful little darlings'-when many are out of control, with parents who won't say 'no' to them.
Can you imagine the thread on here if a taxi driver gave a DC half mented chocolate as in KTNoo description!! Certain people get very upset if their DC is given sweets at nursery by a DC celebrating their birthday!

I think that I will be a lot less friendly in future and more careful. I have gleaned from these threads that as a MIL it would be extremely selfish of me to want to see a new grandchild before they are 3 weeks old-after all the DC won't know and DIL has had a hard time and needs to bond. However if I leave it as long as 6 months because I want to be considerate, I get it in the neck for not caring!
If I have a friend with a baby I must choose my language carefully-'can I have a nurse' is a stupid term.
If I come across a baby in a supermarket I can smile but I mustn't get too close and I can't stroke a foot, much less a hand.I am automatically grubby. I must be very careful with the conversation and not ask questions like 'is she a good baby' because this will be analyzed in depth on mumsnet.
If a 2 yr old is pushing at a soft play centre, and the parent isn't about, I mustn't ask them to stop pushing. If the mother is there she most likely won't stop her anyway.
If I go to a restaurant I have to put up with DCs running around because 'they can't be expected to sit at a table for long'and the parent won't amuse them.

I could go on and on with examples that have been on mumsnet. They want the public to be child friendly on their terms-they can't control the public and so it doesn't work.
I don't see how we can be a child friendly country unless attitudes change and we get more of 'it takes a village to raise a child'.

sfxmum · 28/06/2009 07:45

can I just say that I agree with Laquitar
I am southern European btw

and yes some things better there some things definitely better here, part of the reason I like living here.