To be absolutely steaming about the fact that people think unnecessary genital mutilation is OK?

[Gunnerbean]

I've been having a debate about this on another site and am staggered by the amount of people who are quite blase about it and can't get worked up about it and seem to think it's perfectly OK, and even perfectly acceptable!!

FFS if you smack a child on the street you risk arrest for assault or abuse yet people are allowed to unnecssarily ritually circumscise male babies without anaesthetic? It beggars belief that this has a place in a so-called enlightened civilised society and can be legal.

I have literally got steam coming out of my ears, some of the exchanges I've had have made my heart literally pound with anger and I think my feelings on this issue might actually make me able to understand how strongly those animal activists feel!!!

I think I need to have a lie down...

I'm not ashamed. And neither are Muslims or Jews who don't give a flying fuck what rude middle class English bastards think. You don't realise how you sound do you? Are you saying all Muslims and Jews are shit parents then??!! Come on, spit out your real values, lets hear the truth!!!

And you're only calling me a child abuser because we're not face to face, isn't that the case? Typical. How fucking dare you?

Yes Junglist, not all of us agree with these views but don't haev the energy to engage with frothing people who actually have no desire to engage. It's a familiar theme.

Thanks anniemac, you're now in my good books! I don't mind people disagreeing, but hate the judgey types

frothing people . I'm in that category right now!

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No I don't think yabu, I don't understand why anyone rational would want to hold on to any tradition which involves deliberately hurting someone. I'm not a great one for traditions anyway though, unless they're harmless, like wearing black at a funeral and find it difficult to comprehend why so many otherwise rational people are so passionately attached to horrible traditions. I don't really understand why people get hysterical about other people wearing green at weddings either though, I'm of the opinion that most traditions can be safely dumped without too much harm to anyone.

Is anaesthetic really not used? I always assumed it was.

My nephew was circumsised for medical reasons and it was performed in hospital under anaesthetic. I can't understand why you would do it any other way.

Miss Sunny - as my post stated - i don't agree in circumcising my children, however if the choice of the family is to circumcise their little boy, then i do think it is better to do it when they are younger so they forget the pain. (Although, as stated, i do think it is cruel they do not use anasthetic and they should).

junglist, I find it quite hypocritical of you to castigate others for being judgey while you are the source of nearly all the insults, aggression and attacks in this thread.

Disagree all you want, but is there any chance you can do it a bit less flying spittle and vitriol?

It's odd how these religious / social traditions go in for insisting it's a bit of the sexual/ reproductive organs that have to be cut. Why don't they demand that you cut off your nose, or your little toe, or a bit of your thigh?

I think that if it is such a non-deal for the circumcised man to be without a foreskin, then they should be able to choose to get it done as adults, and accept the pain and recovery that goes with it.

You said you'd be ashamed to admit if you'd done it. you quoted me when I said the reason was fitting in. Saying things in a roundabout way is still saying it, and I'm sick of it. Some people on here spit venom very subtly, which is aggressive, whether they think so or not. I've been insulted on here, so am defending myself, and yes I will be aggressive back, why wouldn't I? Apparently I sicken people, defer to men and am a child abuser, even though nobody knows me. And I'm the aggressive one because I'm direct and to the point. Well so be it then.

And remember it's only the OP who asked for opinions, not me! I didn't ask anyone to pass judgement on my children, I started off politely.Or are people meant to accept being ripped apart by strangers?
Other cultures have their traditions and cultures as much as we do. Cyprus was at war for a number of years, circumcision is linked to the boy becoming a warrior. This doesn't make sense over here, but it makes sense to Turkish people, this is the way of the world, whether we like it or not. The Western way isn't better, it's different. Although I still couldn't have done it without pain relief.

And to anyone accusing me of being an aggressor, READ THE THREAD

jung - coming from my western culture (though I'm not a middle class english B***rd) I will judge people who I view as inflicting unnecessary pain on children - in fact I think we have a duty to campaign against these barbaric practices. I believe that in condoning nad supporting circumcision your culture is wrong - plain and simple.

This is a public forum - and if you aren't happy with having your views challenged then maybe you shouldn't post them here.

I can have people telling me they disagree, as you just did in what I consider quite a respectful manner. But when people call me a child abuser and say I'm sickening, sad and horrible, that's different. They should be able to take what they dish out.

You're not just on my Christmas card list, you're now on my PRESENT list!

junglist you asked if my kids were rude! ?? What have they got to do with it?? You got personal, most people were generic. And Yes I would say it to your or anyones face that i am against GM of babies.