in being so bloody offended that Channel 4 have aired tonight's Wife Swap

[AdelaideJo]

Please tell me i'm not the only one sick to my stomach at what the Bristol family are putting that 18 month old baby girl through on a daily basis.

I watched last night after seeing a thread on mn - and seeing the little girl in the cot like that broke my heart. I agree with those who have said it was like the NSPCC advert. I really hope that there is some follow up to help the whole family, especialy that poor little girl.

i am surprised people expect media to have a conscience about the schlock and car crash tv they broadcast.

ratings ratings ratings ratings

that is all they care about,and unfortunately this sad programme got everyone talking,us included by posting,media talking.

so form Ch4 point - job done.naturally they will pseudo-intellectualise and say we don't create conditions we merely reflect conditions,blah blah.

unfortunately this isn't rare some families do live like that.fortunately a minority

Message withdrawn

I have mixed feelings about this.

I can imagine that a not great situation mixed with a bit of judicious editing has made great car crash TV - as scottishmummy has pointed out - we are all talking about it.

I only watched it after reading the threads on mumsnet, so job done.

What made me very, very uncomfortable was C4 putting the other woman in the position of lying in bed until 1pm when she was not happy about it and leaving the baby, so in effect the other woman had to duplicate the neglectful behaviour in order to follow the "rules".

I also think that the father does play a part in the situation. He is an enabler. By telling her that her behaviour is OK and facilitating it, he is part of the problem (as much as he seems like a nice easy-going bloke). In terms of the overflowing litter tray - and I agree that is a very real health-hazard, not sure why he couldn't have emptied it if she hadn't.

I think the family most certainly need help.

I am not excusing the mother. What has been going on is obviously appauling and needs to be changed.

However, what I don't think they need is for this woman to be demonised. OK if she is given help and doesn't take it up then demonise away, but I think in the meantime she needs to be given a chance, with the appropriate agencies, to get the family on track.

She struck me as young and inadequate and someone who didn't have a scooby how to engage with a child. There are lots of parents out there like this, which is why I thank the stars that Homestart etc. exist.

My fear is that, since she has been naive enough to appear on this programme, she is now a hate target. I can just imagine her trying to take her daughter to soft play now and the hard time people will give her. I should imagine every time she leaves the house to try and improve things now, she is going to have to contend with self-righteous people bombarding her with hatred (probably in front of her children ). This may make said self-righteous people feel better. However, how is that going to help her children?

In her position, I would probably never leave the house again, so this puts the children back in the crap position.

My feelings about showing the programme are mixed, because I think there are lots of people living like this family who justify their behaviour or don't know anything different, and this obviously opens the debate and holds up a magnifying glass to it.

However, also, these are real people "entertaining" us. OK, they put themselves up for the programme, but I can't imagine they can have had a clue about what they had let themselves in for.

I think maybe there is room for programmes that show this kind of thing, but in the context of how to improve things in a constructive way so that it is informative. I don't think a programme like Wife Swap was really the appropriate forum for it.

uncomfortable Ch4 maintained the neglectful status quo for 1st week.just to get a wrap

i feel it is an unfair match,they inevitability match an inadequate with a perfectionist.naturally the inadequate parent looks an ever bigger reprobate

two well matched well balanced parents wouldn't generate such emotive response

terrible

Exactly Scottish Mummy

The more I think about it, the more dismayed I am that the little girl was left until 1pm with her nappy soaking through the mattress while in the care of an entire channel 4 crew in order to recreate something.

I can't imagine they would have been in any doubt that it was neglectful behaviour, whereas I think the child's mother was very much in denial that it was neglectful behaviour.

Both instances unacceptable, but I know which I personally think is the most cynical and morally reprehensible.

difference is Britol Mum clearly has issues.film crew were allegedly neutral impartial choosing not to intervene.just to get a wrap

I agree with Scottishmummy about the responsibility which fell to C4 for child in cot.

I also thought about that experient where eople were prepared to apparantly give others bad electric shocks if under the auhority of someone telling them to do it: I would NOT have left a child alone in a cot all morning, even if my job was to follow the rules. But then the child didn't seem to wake. I am sure the woman wouldn't have lain there listening to a distressed child.

And her Mum must have been giving her plenty of attention, for her to be so responsive and communicative. A documentary a couple of year ago showed children whose parents didn't spend time talking to them - because they didn't bond - and they were clearly not making contact like gorgeous georgina was.

I think C4 manufacture a lot of the shoc coverage. The cat litter tray they showed , supposedly over a few days, was the exact same shot each time - no change to the shit in the litter.

For anyone who missed it first time round its being repeated on Channel 4 in about 10 mins (11.10pm).

snigger I am supported by homestart and have been for 5 years. We don't all neglect our kids you know, I know how to look after my children. I had many other issues instead over the years which I needed support with including housing and being a single parent.

Homestart is only run by volunteers and its a charity. It wouldn't be much help unless people want the help and want to be supported, sadly many in need families close thier doors and say that homestart 'interfere'

Milgram expt seminal and scary compliance and obedience to given instructions also he elaborated upon six degrees of separation

Milgram seminal study on obedience and compliance classic

Blu but they all DID give the shocks didn't they?

I think that is was not nice to watch but it was TV 'reality' maybe but none of you believe in editing?
wife swap - 6 days instead of 14?
baby in cot till one or half eight?

only the editor and cutting room floor have the answer

no not all,one steadfastly refused others were anxious administering "shock" but did so under instruction.seminal study in authority and compliance

pussinjimmichoos 'I'm sick of all this foofy shit with regards to treating parents like her - people are saying oh she's depressed etc but she had the time to get her fake nails done, to apply for the show - but not to get off her arse and look after her child....'

I wasn't making excuses for the mother. I was merely stating that perhaps she was depressed and had a whole lot of other issues. I was as angry as you are watching the docusoap documentary but I was looking for reasons behind why she was behaving this way. After all, until you find out the reason you won't get to the bottom of it.

Yes, she was lazy, but I was interested to find out why she was lazy and was it because she felt she had low self-esteem etc.

Don't know if it's already been covered but, surely, there was someone who Georgina knew (a member of that child's family?) there when filmimg was taking place? C4 didn't just expect that the baby could be just looked after by anyone? There must have been someone in the background for that child to be so seemingly unconcerned?

I didn't see the programme so don't all flame me at once but was the house anything like this? This has been on our local news tonight. This IS neglect and squalor!

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/humber/8113464.stm

As for Wife Swap, I doubt that anybody could stand by and watch a child being apparently treated so badly and do nothing. I suspect much was in the editing as a few posters have said. It's not like reality tv companies have a 'prime directive' like nature programmes or Star Trek to not interfere with the life forms they encounter.

sheepgomeep ( that's my favourite MN name, btw) I apologise if I inferred all recipients of Homestart support are in a neglectful/abusive situation - I was talking more in the context of this thread and probably phrased it badly - I could have done with Homestart myself as a fresh-from-career to SAHM, I had no family nearby and was drowning.

I really have a problem with the programme makers - I've watched other editions of WS where a woman who cleaned all the time was portrayed as a borderline OCD nutcase, but in this one she's a saint! She might have got Georgina up at the right time and given her a banana, but she wouldn't have been pleased if she'd messed up her ruddy white sofa would she? It's all just manipulated twaddle.

It's easy for programme makers to make an young, overweight, working class woman look like a bad mum because that's how the media like to portray people, so we can all be super-judgey and look down our noses at them. We don't know how much the production company 'intervened' here to heighten the contrast between the two families.

I certainly won't argue that the Bristol family needed some guidance in making their daily life better and I hope that they manage to do it. However, I don't think the hard time they are going to have after this has aired will help them at all.

I feel a bit stupid having watched it now, like I've been sucked in. I wish these reality tv makers would be more responsible and not go for this kind of easy way to stir up a reaction from an audience.

Happy to see I'm not the only one to fall in love with wee Georgina, what a little sweetie!! Shall we start a fan club?

snigger - I know exactly what you mean, I have no extended family round me and have really struggled looking after DD at times, she's the first baby I've ever known and it's been tough! Having other mums around me who had their mums coming to stay with them to help out for weeks at a time made it even harder and lonelier.

snigger its ok don't worry, I was probably a bit defensive last night.

Homestart has given me fantastic support over the years and I truly believe I would have committed suicide or seriously injured myself through self harmingor depression if it hadn't been for them.

My ch8ildren have never been abused or put at risk by my actions. Their needs have always always been met first and formost and the thought of leaving a baby in a dirty nappy for hours on end really upsets me. I just didn't want people to think that all homestart families are like this, ok some are but hommestart are duty bound to involve other agencies if they think a child is a t risk (as as happened to a friend of mine, also with homestart.

I watched this programme the first time and immediately judged kelly quite harshly but when I watched it again the second time I found myself with a certain amount of empathy for her. Yes thier was no excuse for leaving that baby in a dirty nappy for that length of time but her lifestyle and her lack of ability to get some sort of routine in her life was heartbreaking really. Iv seen first hand how easy it is to let your life slip like this and how difficult it is to get out of it especially when you have no friends or family to help you out.

Did anyone notice the 'hairdresser' mum left the baby sitting on the worktop playing in the disheater in the kitchen sink ' and walked out of the kitchen.You could hear one of teh crew call out for some one to come and watch her !

I did not watch this particular episode of wife swap, but the issues raised here (ie should this have been screened, etc) remind me of another C4 programme I saw a couple of years ago - some of you may remember it - it was about child carers. The documentary maker set out to make a programme about families where the parents suffered a disability and so the children has to take on a greater caring role. But a large part of the programme focused on a family where the children were clearly being neglected. The parents were partially blind, and had slight learning disabilities, but also clearly were terrible and lazy parents who completely neglected their children. I remember watching it and crying because there was a baby that was being left on its own, with no care until the older children came home from school, with a full nappy all day, etc. It was horrendous, and I remember a lot of people contacted C4 about it and child services. Not sure what happened to the family.