At what point in your road to having DC did you realise that forging a good career and getting to see your DC as much as you want are pretty much incompatible?

[Freddysteddy]

I think I realised this before I got pregnant, but not long before - so post-taking-out-a-big-mortgage.

My friend has just worked this out this month having gone back to work f/t with a 6 mo baby in nursery.

Some people see it coming for years, I guess and maybe don't bother trying to get a career?

Just wondered where you stand on this whole thing.

I have to say I couldn't give two hoots about my career these days. Spent my 20s and early 30s getting a phd then getting as far as I could in my chosen field then went freelance before we started trying for kids.
Could I have achieved all this had I had kids earlier? I very very much doubt it. Did I actually plan it that way? No not really, didn't meet DH til I turned 30 so the choices weren't there before then.

Being freelance allows me to spend loads more time with my boys than most other working mums I know and I still get to do the part of my job I enjoy most without the office shit/constant striving for the next objective/traveling/sucking up to clients part that I always hated.

I cannot imagine not working at all but feel that I've found the right solution for me at the moment. The kids come first and work fits round them (not entirely but thats the aim). Things may change a bit when they start school. However, I realise I'm incredibly lucky to be able to work from home, for myself doing work I enjoy. The thought of really 'going back to work' and rejoining the corporate ladder fills me with horror quite frankly.

It hit me about 2 months after I went back to work and my supposedly promising career...

I have recently set up on my own due to complete inflexibility over working patterns in my industry.

It was made very clear that the only way to progress would to be to work full time.

My new business is doing well so far - and I get to see more of my son (I do still use childcare, just less of it) but am always tired and worrying about how to get it all done.

But having left to further my career, the time away from the office politics etc has made me realise that I don't really care about the status/ladder climbing anymore.

Miss the money though!

Of course our daughters can have it all. No way am I limiting my daughter's horizons! My mother was a SAHM who was adamant her daughters would be (capable of being) self-supporting - it was one of the strongest and best messages she ever imparted to me.

The key to a satisfying part time career is to have specialised and rare skills that are valued by employers. That means being very good at what you do, enjoying what you do and gaining a reputation in the market.

Everything I want for dd.

ceebee, I take your point about a career v just a job.

Working pt, I have deliberately not sought out promotions as the time commitment to do a more senior role well does not sit easily with pt hours.

I feel incredibly privileged to do this pt job. I think of it as a 'career' because I have to keep my skills up-to-date to stay relevant and employable should I be slung out in a redundancy, which is a higher risk for pt workers.

Sometimes I cannot believe I am being paid to do work that is intellectually stimulating (mainly looking at shiny new systems and investigating more efficient business processes) on a pt basis.

Sure I probably won't be promoted but I enjoy this too much to think of it as purely a job.

Oh about three months after returning to work after having DD2!!

This wage slave business thing stinks.

By the way, DH very much struggles with the same thing. The question isn't sexist - it's only the solutions that people often propose to solve the issue that become sexist.

Haven't read the whole thread I should add.

I think you can only have it all if you can pay for a cleaner and gardener etc or if you are up at all hours making packed lunches etc. There is no time to watch the world go by or read a book.

I agree, pisces. My friend and I were having this discussion recently - she was pushed hard by her mother, as were her sisters, to go to university and forge a successful career. She started training to be a dentist, changed to chemical engineering (hmm), then went into marketing and had a very successful career. When she had her first child she decided that she did not want to go back into that competitive, driven environment and retrained to become a primary school teacher. She works p/t and loves it.

We both have daughters, and we are both selling them the same story that our mothers sold us - work hard, be dependant on no man, strive for success and so on - but ultimately we both settled down, wanted children, and more importantly, wanted to actually see our children for more than a couple of hours a day and at weekends when there is a mad rush to cram in both domestic stuff and family time.

Can we have it all? I guess it depends on what 'all' means to you.

Agree, paolosgirl. Our daughters can still have it 'all' so long as they have the choice, even if eventually or at some point they exercise that choice in favour of more time with children.

It is a different story if they don't have that choice to begin with because they did not pursue the education and skills necessary to give them financial independence. I think your and your friend's message to your daughters is the right and sensible one.

I think it is very important to have the choice.
I just don't want to spend every moment of my day doing something constructive. I want to put my feet up and do a crossword or go for a walk because it is a nice evening or go and have a game of tennis or just have a conversation with DH! Not all day obviously! A nice mix of work, chores and play. If you try and have it all, it is personal time that gets squeezed out IMO.

And conversely, if they become so embedded in a career which does not allow flexibility or support family friendly working that it is impossible to combine a family and a career without having to leave and retrain.

You're right, it comes down to increasing available choices, both in terms of what you can offer your employer in relation to skills, experience and education, and what the employer can offer you in the form of family friendly working and support.

I realized it on the morning of the day my dd was born. I remember very vividly standing at the window of the room holding her and showing her the snow (ok, ok I know, but she was my PFB) and realizing that there was no way on earth that in 4 months time I would be able to leave this person for 12/13 hours a day with the wonderful, fabulous nanny I had lined up. I still feel guilty about the nanny, but I had no doubts or regrets at all. The only time I miss/missed my former live is at times of political crisis. I was in a position to get TONS of fabulous political gossip and I still hate not having any inside information!

but your choices are based around the fact that you have partners who can financially support those decisions

so you can scale down your work or not work at all because your partners can support you

I still maintain it is possible to both (you and your partner) have a career and still see the kids. It just depends on what that career is and how much time you deem with your children is necessary.

I had no choice to scale back my career. At the age and stage I was at it was all or nothing.

We had to cut back DRASTICALLY. Yes I was lucky that I had a partner who was working, but even if I hadn't, I would not have gone back to my former role.

I realised it in my first weeks as a trainee at big law firm. I had worked really hard for years to get to that point, only to realise almost in a flash that the whole thing was never going to work for me. I knew I wanted to have children one day and I knew that I couldn't do it and pursue that career at the same time. Why? I saw women lawyers all around me either driving themselves demented trying to do/have it all (no thanks) or forging a career by handing over all the childcare reins to others (not for me). So, I pootled along for a fair few years and bowed out gracefully when my first baby arrived. I haven't looked back.

I would like to go back to work one day but it will always have to be something that fits in around the children. I want to be the one picking them up from school, making their dinner, helping them with homework, hearing about their day etc etc.

Interesting thread.

Depends on how much you want to see your DC. If you want them 24/7 then forging a good career as you put it is impossible. It is possible to have a career and a good family-life but I think there are always compromises whatever you decide to do.

Makemine - think we might be the same person...

When I held dd and knew I couldnt leave her. When I heard the lawyers at work complaining about the night nanny (they needed day and night nannies because the hours were so long). Although I kind of fell into my job and although it was high paid and I was perceived as successful it was never really what I wanted to do so giving it up was not the wrench it would have been for someone that loved their job. Just feel relief that I don't have to do it anymore and adore being at home with my babies. My 19 year old self would be horrified!

we all compromise in life

where we live
employment
career
balancing multiple demands

Kerala - I know what you mean! My 19 year old self didn't even think she wanted children and nothing less than a ball-breaking job would do.....!!! Ha - how she would look down her nose at the 30-something me up to my eyes in laundry and other domestic duties! I am truly happy though and I know my time will come again to "prove" myself as a member of society in the future!

My problem was that my 36 year old self didn't think she wanted children either, so dd was a bit of a shock to my 37 year old self!

seeker

Litchick - if I earned ten times less than my DH then I agree, it might not make much sense. But often these days, people do partner people with similar status/earning power - just a fact of life. And many parents are keen to both be hands on parents and both keep their hands in with their careers. So it makes sense to share earning and parenting responsibilites

Brilliant answers, thank you, I've really enjoyed reading every one of them.

I think someone asked at the beginning, why was this in AIBU? Shamelessly to get as many relpies as possible, I'm afraid. But I've really enjoyed a pretty straightforward discussion on this topic

bottom line we all do what we have to do.no particular path is necessarily right

happy parents and affirmation make for happy children

whether that is sahm
working
whatever

It isn't incompatible but it is difficult. And we have been brought up to think we can have it all - and we can't. We can, at best, have half - that's what I do. I'm really lucky; I work part time, my job is interesting, and I earn enough to mean that my husband can also work part time, freelance, so we can look after our baby together.

(Separately - I think one of the key issues is persuading more men that they could do their jobs part time too - that way, women will be less stigmatised as employees, relationships are more balanced, men don't miss out on their children. etc)

Back to my situation - it's great, but I don't have it all - it's still only half - half a career and half staying at home. Most days my glass is definitely half full. I'm incredibly lucky. Sometimes, though - we all know the times - it is half empty.

I think regardless of how much my husband made I would still work. Nothing is set in stone, things change all the time. A career/job that doesn't seem that important in the context of your family life can become incredibly important if circumstances change.