At what point in your road to having DC did you realise that forging a good career and getting to see your DC as much as you want are pretty much incompatible?

[Freddysteddy]

I think I realised this before I got pregnant, but not long before - so post-taking-out-a-big-mortgage.

My friend has just worked this out this month having gone back to work f/t with a 6 mo baby in nursery.

Some people see it coming for years, I guess and maybe don't bother trying to get a career?

Just wondered where you stand on this whole thing.

I had a really important meeting this morning, had to drop dd at nursery on the way... DD must be teething or something because she was very clingy, crying her heart out and it was getting later and later...

An hour after we were supposed to leave, I was sitting on the sofa cuddling her to sleep, totally not ready. At that point I realised that work was never going to be the focus of my life again, and I didn't really care.

About one month after having the first one. I thought before he was born that I'd be back at work in a month. It was once I reached the end of the first month without drawing breath that I realised it might be a bit more complicated than drop the baby, stop bleeding, get back to work. I suddenly realised I'd made another human, and what's more, fallen in love with the little bugger despite his wayward ways...

I was a bit slow on the uptake compared to most.

when going back after ds1, i went P/T, and i got given a publication cycle i'd set up pre-ML for a small team to run fulltime, given back to me. and this was only a small part of my responsibilities. 'but you;re a coper, aren't you?'

nope.

franca sorry i cant follow your points.can you clarify

i am talking about working FT with a baby

we are solvent and can afford mortgage nursery etc because we work.this is acknowledged ongoing

mummy and daddy work.
we pay mortgage
buy food
buy the clothes
not santa or tooth fairy

I was with you all the way SM - right up to the point where you implied that Santa and the Tooth Fairy didn't exist

Scottish, no, not me, it's Fairlady ... I only popped around (and I apologize for diverting attention from the op) to compliment Barbara Pym's choice of nickname.

do you mean me....am not franca though...

what I meant was, that it is fine to do what you do....but the values, especially the solvent, self reliant...ones are not necessarily the ones especially talking about 2 parent family where you may have a choice...I meanjt those values can still be learned, even if one partner stays at home to parent, to do the childcare etc....
doesn't have to be the mom....and I did mention earlier that, of course the element of choice is sometimes/often a luxury...but that is a different issue, I suppose...

I just think those

but we should teach our children to be

solvent
self reliant
employed

aren't necessary learned just by kids of 2 earner families...

aye perhaps bit too verbose there.you are right enough

both my parents worked
my mum had a job not a career.she was bright but working class women were not encouraged or given aspirations above their status

she imbued in me
financial independence
work hard
study
chose a career

motherhood and career are not mutually exclusive

phew...honestly didn't mean offence there...but know sometimes am not clear...especially after a glass or two of the red stuff...lol...

and franca...disappointed with you you taletell...erm...truthteller, lol....

I was very aware while I was pursuing it that my career would not be compatible with the kind of family life I wanted when I had children, (ie where I at least see them every day, eat with them and put them to bed). Nevertheless I continued to pursue it and do the best I could for my own personal satisfaction and also because there are no guarantees about whether I would meet the right person and have DC's at all.

Now that I am a SAHM I do not miss my old career but am happy and proud that I was successful and enjoyed a job I loved that challenged me. It has also given me the confidence to believe that if/when I go out to work again then I could do something I would find satisfying and that would, if necessary, be financially rewarding.

dont necessarily think 2 wages is the only way

but,i do find it incomprehensible a woman could be completely finacially/vocationally inactive and never work again after having children

i appreciate people make different individual choices about when to go back.fair enough.BUT one cannot have children and never work again.

that would be the ultimate martyr

I always knew that if I had dcs I would look after them and not work even if that meant managing on a reduced income. I could not contemplate the idea of not being the primary caregiver so I guess on that level I knew that something would have to give.

franca/fairlady.yes i got confused.read franca thought she wrote post

clear now - thanks

scottish - why "martyr"? Not everyone enjoys working, same as not everyone enjoys staying at home with children. What about if you were in a financial position where you could play tennis/lunch/shop every day (possibly with DH) while the DC's are at school/university/work? I understand why some (myself included) would find that boring but it is lovely for others and I know some mums who actually have full time nannies to look after their small DC's while they do just that - certainly not what I would want but I don't think they would class themselves as martyrs!

employment gives me self worth,affirmation,sense of achievement

couldnt derive that from fannying about idle rich playing tennis

martyr mum oft found on MN

no extraneous purchasing
no consumer durables
hand knitted tampons
all for the children.when the children probaly want a PS and for mum to stop going on about everything she does for them

About 20 years too late. There are so many different choices I would have made had I known then what I know now.

scottishmummy

"hand knitted tampons"

brilliant!

Ages before having my DD. I saw so many colleagues having babies and children - and was generally horrified at the way the children were neglected...

I realised before I had children-however I think bringing up DCs is much more rewarding and interesting than any career so it didn't bother me. I teach because I like to be in the classroom with the children and have never had the slightest desire to be a Head or even in senior management.

scottish other women feel their self worth through being a mother, etc...

everyone is different...

one persons chore is another persons leisure, and so on...priorities of the individual differ so much, etc....one persons most important thing is anothers least important thing....and so on....

In answer to the original post I think it hit me with the birth of me second child.

When my first child was starting to become more physically independent, ie not needing me to feed her, change her nappy and so forth I considered returning to work. However, by then I felt bad about returning due to the emotional connection I had with her and did not want that to be compromised if I was stressed out about work (due to my personality and the hob that I did as well as not having any close family near by).

Now my second child is here and the older one is due to start school I am wondering how I will ever work again. I know, as someone has previously said that I will have a career again (as I did pre children). But life has changed.

I was going to post a question the other day about how women manage to work and have children (especially preschoolers as this is the age mine are). Also how women find doing so etc etc. I think that this is the marvel of women the ability to multi task!

I think that society is missing a trick however by not enabling more women to work. I know that flexible working is available but I wonder how 'flexible' it really is. As a consequence many women feel that they have to chose between one and the other (and some do not have a choice).

sorry I wandered off the point a bit there.....

Agree with foxinsocks, violethill and scottish that having a career can be compatible with feeling satisfied with being a good parent, if you want it to and work at it.

The only realisation (which I sensed before having dcs and which was confirmed when I had dd) for me is that it would be difficult if both parents went neck-to-neck for it at their careers. At least one would have to give to some degree (eg by taking a job with more family friendly hours, stable hours, less travelling etc).

I chose to work reduced hours.

You can still have a decent career with a flexible job, but you have to be determined and focused to network and ferret them out. Because well-paying and interesting flexible jobs are like golddust and frequently don't get advertised because positions are filled internally.

The key is being self-aware enough to find the balance that works for you and your family. If you like your job and are good at it, it is a worthwhile investment to fight (and sadly, this requires some effort and organisation) to keep your job at the right hours, leaving enough time to spend with your dcs. Some women can work ft and achieve this. I prefer to work pt.

Of course, if you never liked the idea of working in the first place, it is easy to give up and say that career and family are not compatible - because the reality is that the workplace does go out of its way to make it easy to combine the 2.