To remove the toy baby feeding bottle from my dd's new doll bath and feeding set?

[Springfleurs]

I was brought up to think that breast feeding was a strange and rather disgusting thing to do.

Luckily managed to overcome this myself and b/f both dc for 5 months and 14 months respectively.

Took dd to a toy shop today and she chose a doll bath and feeding set. Unpacked it for her when we got in and there is a feeding bottle in there. I know it might seem a bit precious but it irritated me slightly, as though it was a mandatory piece of equipment for all babies/dolls.

Or

I am taking it all rather too seriously?

hey is this hetty hoover and lil henry camp as a row of tents and wrong kind o suction
blimey!what a lot of articles about hoovers.just googled it.wow

Poor little Henry. The violation.

lol at the before and after pictures of poor wee henry.the ignominy o it all

oh. cool it with the sychophantic chorus.kinda cloying

Did Henry receive any counselling?

Evening Leonie...

I begin to wonder if people's attitudes are formed in part by their views of BF before children, and how easy they found it and how well supported they were.

For people who struggled and prevailed in the end, there is maybe a certain evangelism, the desire to hunt other people down and convert them, to shout it from the rooftops.

I wonder if people who just read the literature, thought "well BF sounds like a good thing, I'll do that", and then just did it, and it was all fine, are at a loss to understand what all the hoo-ha is about.

It's how I feel. People aren't all thick, and they want the best for their children. Give them the information, let them make their minds up. Let them ask questions and answer them in a factual non-judgey way. Give them proper decent support from delivery onwards. I can't see why the need to jump up and down, or remove toys from children etc.

Everyone knows breast is best. Most people try to BF. Many fail as they are not adequately supported. That is the problem to my mind, in the UK, not what toys little girls play with.

And so many questions!

Yes I may have eaten the paper on the sweet cigarettes, I was never quite sure what to do with them. My personal vice was those dracula teeth things.

Yes people have been OTT when talking about BF on ante-natal courses I attended. The implication being that to FF was to fail, and that people who didn't do it were basically selfish, and that it was always very very easy (misleading). People just wouldn't talk about FF except with a face that made it look like they'd eaten a turd. The assumption was that everyone would BF, no alternative, no truck with failure.

Yes people I have met in real life have been very full on about BF, much as many people on this thread are. Forever quizzing people on how they fed their babies, how long for, why didn't they BF etc etc. It is probably something to do with the area I live in - I suspect there is a relatively high BF take up round here and therefore many evangelical people. Of my post-natal group of about 20 only 2 formula fed their babies.

Sorry, just come back to this thread after the whole dinner-bath-bed malarkey. I'm quite pissed off at your earlier dig at me, to be honest@gabygirl. I hardly think I single handedly 'polarised' the issues.

In fact, if you have ever read anything I have written on this subject during my time on MN, you'll know that I am anything but on some sort of 'side'. and have. in fact, thought about this very deeply and from different perspectives (have breastfed, have had problems, have turned to formula, have breastfed a second child etc...)

I think threads like this are unhelpful, actually - YES, I do. A few great posts (pepperedmackerel - well said), but lots and lots of nasty carping on both 'sides' (if you really want to separate women into groups based on how they feed their babies...).

And sorry, but I do think the OP is taking this just a little too far. Perhaps you disagree, but the OP did actually ask 'AIBU?'. To which I say: Yes.

I'm too tired to read all 39 pages, sorry. 30 weeks pregnant and sleeping ridiculously badly.

Just wanted to say I loved my vanishing-milk bottle when I was a kid. I loved feeling like my dolls were "real".

And now I am a pregnant grown up and determined to breastfeed if I possibly can.

The first time I was aware of the issue was in a doctor's surgery with a poster for breast milk. From then on I was aware that breastfeeding was A Good Thing.

I guess what I'm saying is you have a lot of influences when you're growing up. A toy bottle will not ruin your child!

A couple of thoughtful and interesting posts above.

On a serious note, I think my choice to ff, ultimately, if we are talking about that, was based on the fact that I was ff. Which is interesting, as there are lots of things my Mum did which I wouldn't necessarily replicate!

I did play with baby dolls but only ever fed them with bottles if they were the sort that weed, as that was a novelty.

I did get a bit overcome with annoyance earlier but I think formula feeders have a rough time on here sometimes and it makes me a bit chopsy.

Maybe what the ante-natal people need to be doing is asking what support networks people have and sending them all literature and DVDs about BF?

To try to break the cycle.

Would cost a bomb though, and potentially be seen as rather intrusive.

I think the best way to increase BF would be to put plenty of people on the wards and recovery rooms and delivery suites who could rush in when the baby was born and say "do you want to BF? Yes? Here is baby here is tit now have a snuggle etc etc" and keep checking back how it's going. Check the latch, check the positioning, check everyone is comfortable etc.

I had emcs and there was no BF support at all. Which is when it is needed. Luckily I was fine but I expect a lot of women would have appreciated someone coming and helping them with it. Seems that people are lectured informed at ante-natal stage, go into it all guns blazing, have a problem, get no support, pack it in.

If the NHS really want to improve BF rates that is where they need to spend the money.

Thing is, unless the people in control of the budgets are convinced that bf is important, there won't be any money for bf support. Look at it now - health professionals, some very well trained and sensitive, some less so, some out and out dangerous on the subject, private lactation consultants and trained volunteers, be they bf counsellors or peer supporters - VOLUNTEERS.

What does that say about how much value is placed upon breastfeeding? In our capitalist society, we value things we pay for. We don't generally pay for bf support - we might fling the NCT a quid or three a month, but really, in the grand scheme of things? Breastfeeding is NOT valued by society, women who do it for any length of time have unpleasant things said about them (thank you, Nancy66, for providing an example of that on this very thread) and are generally made out to be precious and OTT, perhaps showing off, or flaunting themselves, or trying to be superior/smug.

Breastfeeding isn't valued, as I said. So for all of you saying in one breath that bf support needs to be better, but we mustn't say anything against formula - think about it. You can't actually have it both ways.

Hunker that doesnt make any sense.

Formula is private industry. They do what they do for a profit.

BF promotion is a public health issue. Therefore it's up to the state to give it appropriate funding.

It's not a case of "pick one". The two things are different.

Same as loads of similar things with private for profit side and public health side.

And I haven't seen anyone on this thread say that women who BF are showing off or flaunting themselves...

It makes plenty of sense, Spam, I promise - yes, formula's private industry, but there is a great deal of their marketing spiel out there in common parlance - and that includes GPs, MPs and others in control of budgets.

I have a number of firsthand experiences of people's own, personal experience of bf/ff informing their professional decisions - from funding to promotion to training to support.

Formula companies use the "don't let anyone make you feel guilty for ffing" and "don't talk about bf or you'll make women who couldn't feel guilty" line a LOT - and if you don't believe me that it's in common parlance, have a look at the reply from MEP/Green Party leader Caroline Lucas on latest webchat on here:

"Although we?d certainly want to give as much support as possible to women who choose to breastfeed (and that means ensuring they get as much time as they need with midwives and health visitors), I?m anxious that women who don?t or can?t aren?t made to feel bad about the decisions they make ? I?d say that Green Party policy would be about supporting women in whatever they choice they make, and making sure they have enough information to make an informed choice."

This is one of the best I've seen, actually - I think she's done a pretty good job in her reply because she talks about informed choice. But how do you inform women without making "women feel guilty"? You've seen what presenting facts does on this very thread - it makes people Quite Cross!

That's what I mean about not being able to have it both ways - unpalatable things will need to be said and accepted by those in control of budgets before decent money is put into bf support/culture change in the health service.

why assert bf isn't valued?slightly martyred stance.that is a fatalistic view.do you think your efforts are all in vein

BF
it is heavily promoted and has some legislative support (although i know campaigners want more)
all royal colleges support it
no tv adverts
no sales/discounts on ff products
illegal to discriminate against public bf in Scotland

arguably further work to do,but dont agree with overall appraisal

on this thread there have been some outrageous bombastic statements and there is a thin line between impassioned campaigner to pedantic tub thumping zealot.unfortunately tikTok some ardent campaigners are too zealous,too preachy and unfortunately it does a disservice to the well balanced educational campaigning

so also bf campaigning cant have it both ways.ardent vociferous campaigning and some over enthused comrades and then askance "why do people call us horrid names"

essentially this is a lesson in listening and empathy.acceptance of divergent views and behaviour

for all

But the breast is best message is hammered on about throughout ante-natal services. The message is not the problem. Initial attempts to BF are made. It's the follow through that lets everyone down.

And FWIW I don't think that women who FF should be made to feel bad just for the sake of it. Facts presented on this thread which made people cross were things like, well I can't even be bothered to rehash them, but they were not facts, they were very very extreme opinions which understandably upset people. They upset both FFers and BFers. No-one on this thread has disputed that breast is best. Not a single person.

Why is it fatalistic to state a fact?

A capitalist society doesn't generally value something you can get for free, far less throw lots of money at promoting it. Yes, excellent work is done and continues to be done - but it's not easy and, oh look, it gets you called a martyr in the process [adds to collection]

Or alternatively what SM said.

Um

Anti-smoking campaigns
Anti-drinking campaigns
Pro-healthy eating campaigns
Pro-exercising more campaigns
Legislation about all of these things

All of which go against the money making industries involved.

Yes, "breast is best" is stated. And? You say yourself the follow-up is lamentable. "Best" sets a standard, it doesn't help anybody reach it. "Breast is best" is a dreadful slogan, unhelpful and hectoring.

And if anybody thinks I want to make women feel bad, or that I agree with saying things that aren't true about ff to support bf, you're barking up the wrong tree, I'm afraid.

take that big ole cross of your back TT.im not adressing you personally.

i am summising my poinion on the thread.having followed and contributed

how long must some BF supporters feel put upon and pilloried by oligarchial companies,society and the alleged "con" and conspiracy theory

regroup focus on your avowed aims
stop collecting labels feeling got at