To remove the toy baby feeding bottle from my dd's new doll bath and feeding set?

[Springfleurs]

I was brought up to think that breast feeding was a strange and rather disgusting thing to do.

Luckily managed to overcome this myself and b/f both dc for 5 months and 14 months respectively.

Took dd to a toy shop today and she chose a doll bath and feeding set. Unpacked it for her when we got in and there is a feeding bottle in there. I know it might seem a bit precious but it irritated me slightly, as though it was a mandatory piece of equipment for all babies/dolls.

Or

I am taking it all rather too seriously?

"I have also met women who have asked me aggressively how I fed DD, when I said BF they looked hacked off and asked how long. My response to this question was met with palpable disappointment, presumably as they could then not proceed to tell me how shit a mother I was, and they were unable to feel smug."

I've been a mother for 10 years, and I've never felt judged or criticised by any other mother as to how I care for my childen. (apart from my MIL and mum unfortunately, who have both accused me at various times of spoiling my children - but doesn't that go with the territory! )

I wish some psychologist would do a observational study on the interactions of new mothers. I sometimes think we've got a weird sort of mass hysteria going on. So many women insisting they're being judged and found wanting, usually on the basis of a 'dirty look' or a question that would sound completely innocuous to someone outside the 'theatre of guilt and shame'.

Spam, just so's I am clear about what you are saying:

You have come across women working for NCT (as opposed to people who may attend NCT events) and people working for 'NHS antenatal' (classes, clinics???) who shared 'strident' opinions about how awful it is to formula feed?

"I do wonder if it is another ploy from the formula companies"

Yup, I do think they've managed to turn the whole thing to their commercial advantage by getting more ready made formula onto the shelves.

"Gaby there are posts on here which basically say that FF is evil, and take it somewhat further to say that babies must not under any circumstances have a bottle ever."

I have never seen a post that says anything like that on mumsnet.

Can you link me?

i am amazed. i have 6 children and no one outside a doctors surgery/hospital has ever asked me how i fed any of them

i obviously move in the wrong circles

and in answer to the Op, we have many baby dolls in this house. DD usually breast feeds them and the DSs usually bottle feed. but not always

You never felt judged or criticised by any other mother as to how you care for your children, Gaby?

Is this your first time on Mumsnet?

As someone who works, ff and had a cs, I certainly have, but fortunately I'm not too bothered and I am incredibly fortunate that my DD is healthy and happy.

I'm for informed choice for all mothers and in all aspects. That's MY hobby horse.

Spam-it just occurred to me that in your youthful zest that perhaps you neglected to take the paper off!

"With FF-you can be sure to not have to alter your diet-a plus maybe"

You don't have to alter your diet when you're breastfeeding.

Spam: "I do wonder if it is another ploy from the formula companies. Put the absolute strictist rules possible on and then if anything does go wrong from people not following them they can sue."

You are living on fantasy island (I assume you mean 'can't sue').

The guidance came out of the European Food Safety Authority after some babies died in of infection that was traced to the powdered formula they were using. It has been fought in every EU country by the formula manufacturers. They resisted for months putting the new guidance on their packs. They do not want people to think their babies might die from a bacteria in the powder, FGS, however rarely. Not exactly a great selling point.

www.food.gov.uk/science/socsci/surveys/infantformula

To my knowledge, no case of harm to an infant from formula has ever been brought to the courts.

I did gabygirl. Also while I was pg.

I've been on mumsnet for several years, and no, I don't feel judged and never have.

I know I've done my best as a mum based on what I knew at the time, and on what I was able to do. I assume other people have too. That doesn't mean I can't have strong opinions about what's best for babies or be exposed to other people's opinions without having a crisis of confidence!

I was being jocular about how long you had been on Mumsnet, not literal.

And no crisis of confidence here either!

Just get irritated by the attitude of certain bf posters now and then.

I am a little confused as to why anyone cares so much about what other people do. I made choices for my own babies which I was happy with. As I was happy with them I did not bother to ask or to care what other people did. What another baby is fed has no impact on my baby whatsoever.

By the way, getting back to the original thread - to the OP - you are taking this far to seriously. My girls FF and BF their many, many babies!! They also love ramming dummies in their mouths too. This is not an 'essential' for many babies, but my girls would turn their noses up at a doll without one!!

It is far too serious for a toy! I was bf, my younger brothers were bf, I bf my DCs, I also didn't use dummies but I loved playing with dolls as a DD and I liked having a feeding bottle. People get way too serious and read too much into simple childish fun.

An awful lot of people don't get to feed their babies the way they would like to, popsypie, and often they have a lot of stress and unhappiness as a result.

If you want to ff in this country, you can go ahead and do it - quite rightly, no one will physically stop you, and no one can. The only thing that could theoretically stop you is not having the cash to buy the bottles and the formula.

If you want to bf in this country, you have to hope it works out easily for you as if you face any kind of problem there's a good chance your mainstream, ordinary sources of info - your midwife, hv, gp, friends and family - won't be able to help you that much. They may give you 'advice' they're sure is helpful but isn't, or jump straight to the (said very kindly and well meaningly) "don't beat yourself up if you have to give a bottle" as soon as you seem to be having trouble. There's absolutely no guarantee you'll be able to do it, and not just because you might be one of the small number of people who physically can't, but because of all sorts of other things to do with information and support.

When people start off want to bf and it goes wrong or a problem isn't fixed they end up unhappy and let down, and also they represent a baby who could have had breastmilk with all its advantages and now can't.

Their situation might well have no impact on your baby whatsoever but it's still not a good one and it's preventable. And it happens partly because of all the myths and misinformation about bf and ff and a culture that sees ff as the ordinary way to feed a baby and bf as the weird, special, 'nice if you can get it but not essential enough to push for' way.

can we digress back to my pink hoover.the one i carted aboot everywhere

lets postulate a hypothesis: is the hoover an object of social control?will childhood exposure result in behaviour modification

for all you statisticians we could do some nice ANOVA,ttests,regression.

oh feel our statistics gland secreting

now isn't this fun

My sister in law has actually got a real grown up pink hoover. She's called Hetty - the hoover not the SIL. I want one. I also want it to have a plug which you have to lick and then suction to the wall.

so it as aw suck and blaw with you and hetty

yep

one do you have to lick the plug exactly?does saliva aid suction

I believe it does. Never worked on the shiny seventies wallpaper though. Also a rather dangerous training tool for kids. Imagine if as an adult I had licked my Dyson plug before shoving it in the socket. What a way to go.

I can remember when I was pg reading something about C sections or pethidine or something to do with birth that affected bf - made it less likely that people would be able to bf - it was one of the listed side effects, somethig like that. I remember clearly thinking how irrelevant and over the top it was to include the effect on bfing, as if it really mattered - how fussy and perfectionist.

Even though I was planning to bf my new baby, my subconscious view was that bf was very much a 'luxury extra' - not anything like a basic right for the baby or the mum to have working. Reading about 'less bf' as a downside of something like a section made no more sense to me than, say, reading about 'less organic food' being a downside of giving birth in hospital would do.

Clearly, bf was nice and the right thing to try to do and a Good Thing but it wasn't something to make a fuss about working unless you were a Mad Hippy Earth Mother who would probably insist on organic sheets on her hospital bed or something like that!

Over the years my views have changed a lot and I don't see bf as a 'lifestyle choice' that doesn't matter that much, any more, but as something much more like a basic human right. If a mother is willing to bf her baby then every bit of the healthcare system and society should help to make that happen, because the physiological effects of not bf are real and the stats about illness and so on are overwhelming. And if something like pethidine makes bf less likely, I would now want to know, because now I really think it matters. (I might still have it though, but I'd want to know about all the effects first!)

Earlier on I would have said that bf was best and of course bf mattered - but I don't think I really did think it mattered, in the same way I do now.

So I do sympathise with people who think this is all just a bit over the top and fussy and fgs it's only a bottle etc. etc., because a few years ago I think that would have been my view too. I can understand it, even though I no longer share it.

I've got Henry. He's quite butch. I would definitely recommend.

pepperedmackarel - I'm completely with you. Most people just don't think about it very much.

Maybe Henry could be introduced to Hetty and they could make little vacuum babies. just think how cute and useful they would be. they could clean the bits under the car seats. Patent pending.