Am I being unreasonable to suggest that kids who are faddy eaters have been "allowed" to become so?

[Lucia39]

This will no doubt get me "flamed" but hell, I don't want to watch the Champions League final so have left other half and teenage son to do so on their own - a good opportunity for some "male bonding" with some beer!

So, what do other parents think? Are faddy eaters born or made?

I recognise that we all have certain foods that we don't particularly care for or like but once those dislikes have been identified surely everything else should be accepted and eaten? I always advocated the "taste it and see" approach which generally worked. Although I wouldn't suggest that a two year old be given red hot Indian food just to "taste and see", but .... you never know!

I also often wonder if some children are faddy because their repertoire has been so limited and/or bland that they view anything that looks or tastes "different" with suspicion.

When I was growing up there was always an option at meal-times "take it or leave it" and my mother held to the view that when we were hungry enough we'd eat. I am also quite sure that a day without solid food will not actually harm any child!

My first was and is a fussy eater, but i accept full responsibility for it. During the precious weaning stage and moving onto lumps, finger foods if he didn't eat what i made i gave him something i knew he would eat. Hence he became stuck on certain foods which has stayed with him.

Subsequent children i learned from my mistakes and they will eat more or less anything put in front of them.

I'm not saying all fussy eaters are made that way, but unfortunately in my little man's case i hold my hands up and take the blame.

mumsnet is meant to be a support network.

i don't find it very supportive to suggest that parents of fussy eaters have caused it themselves.

i have a very fussy eater myself and it is totally demoralising and a very sensitive subject for some people.

and for the record i believe fussy eaters are born and not made, all babies/children are different.

so YABU.

I shall nominate you for Mum of the Year 2010 Humphrey. You may like to reciprocate.

notsorampant - Well said, I feel your pain. I have at one time or another done all of the things you mentioned. Now I just smile, relax and get on with it. Doesn't stop me worrying though!

Glad your ds is starting to experiment a bit more . My ds is 18 months. He will try anything at the moment, only problem is that him 'trying' something is to chew it up then spit it out! Ah well, it's progress.

and what on earth is wrong with the acronyms dh/ds/dd etc? they are not schmaltsy, i have never thought that before

To the OP: If you REALLY wanted to consider this in a measured fashion you could look into it in more depth. There's a wealth of research out there into complex, pathological feeding issues that makes interesting, if heavy reading. Or failing that, you could just make an ill-informed, sweeping statement and feel a bit smug about it all.

As the mother of a so-called 'fussy eater' who has been under paediatric care for her extreme feeding issues I've spent a lot of time reading up on the subject and having endless consultations with various top specialists, so in order to spare you the tedious research I'll outline a few details on the juicy end of extreme feeding issues.

It's very easy to assume fussy eaters are made and not born and whilst I agree that problems can be created and/or exacerbated by mishandling of mealtimes, it's wrong to view the issue in such black and white terms. Some feeding issues manifest themselves due to far more complex reasons than parental f*ck ups over weaning and whilst as a parent it is very easy to wring your hands over what you may have done wrong, there is very little you can do to stop it happening. In such cases it can be hard enough to halt the slide into severe food restrictions and issues. Food issues of this kind need careful handling and a sustained and specific approach.

My daughter is only two and a half but presented extreme reactions to food following weaning. She had no bite function, no chew function and would routinely gag on and then refuse all foods other than smooth yoghurt. From seven months until 18 months she refused to eat anything other than white baby yoghurts. We tried everything and followed all the guidelines from health visitors and books. Her eating issues defeated us all, including my highly trained, highly experienced nanny who was well-used to ironing out standard toddler fussiness over food.

According to my daughter's paediatric dietician (who knew her peanuts from her raspberries) some children have a pathalogical reaction to food. In my daughter's case it was, in all likelihood, linked to the feeding tube she had following her premature birth. Like many reflux babies and tube fed babies she had a pathalogical association of food with an unpleasant sensation. In her case it wasn't the acid of reflux but rather the irritation of her nasal gastric tube. Having been assured by the paediatricians in the hosptial who fitted the tube following her birth that she "would never remember it" I was rather thrown when I discovered this, but apparently it is quite common. It is estimated that around 80% of premature babies will encounter feeding 'issues' relating to their increased incidence of reflux and/or NGT feeding. Not all tube fed or reflux babies will get it (which again adds to the frustration as it is so hard to predict) and the feeding issues can vary from the slight to the extreme. Not all babies who are tube fed for a long period or have severe acid reflux will go on to present severe food issues and the converse can apply.

You could argue that I WOULD believe this as it's in my interests not to blame myself for my daughter's feeding issues. However, thanks to the ever-present maternal guilt I will always feel responsible for her feeding issues, I do have the best proof you can ask for. My daughter is a twin. Her twin was, obviously, equally premature and equally tube fed. Her twin also had slight reflux for several weeks following birth. In spite of being weaned at the same time and fed the same food and encouraged and raised in exactly the same way, this other twin is a textbook 'perfect' eater. And yet her sister has sat at the far end of disastrous in the eating stakes.

Either way, it's nothing any of you have done. If you've got a great eater then you can feel good about it, but the chances are that child would have been a pretty good eater in anyone's hands. Equally, if you're child doesn't eat for you, it won't eat for anyone and there's no quick fix.

There's some very interesting research out there, not least the stuff on the emerging understanding of the complexities of feeding issues amongst children. Universally, I was told "It's not something you've done" and although it was hard to shake that belief as a mother who was watching her child struggle so much with food and the basic mechanics of eating, I now understand this to be true. I've read enough and sat through enough feeding workshops and consultations to understand THIS is the truth.

Kitstwins

Oh dear.The thread has descended into trading insults.Sometimes the problem is that posters post their questions from a theoretical,or sometimes purely mendacious point of view,where it doesn't really affect them on a daily basis,and forget that to some posters the issue they are discussing are deeply impacting other poster's day to day lives.I was very upset recently over a posters comments on the disability thread.

Dalrymps,I am sure you are doing ther best you can for your dc,don't let the thread upset you.

Have not read whole thread as I don't want to get too wound up by those saying that fussy eating is always the fault of the parent .

My DC1 is a fussy eater (doesn't like sauce on things etc), and I do go about things the 'correct' way. I don't give in by offering something less nutritious as an alternative, so nearly everything (bar the odd treat) is healthy. He is just limited sometimes in the things that he does eat. It is annoying though as sometimes he will eat something and sometimes he does not eat the same thing. Though maybe he just doesn't always have a huge appetite.

I do get annoyed by the assumption on threads like this that fussy eaters always therefore eat crap. He does always eat a big healthy breakfast, it is just the other meals that he picks at. He does like seemingly random things like avocados though so I am trying to be relaxed about the eating and not stress about the fact he won't always eat 'proper' meals like sheperds pie or a stir fry. What goes in is healthy and varied, just sometimes an odd combo!

I do, however, think that in DC1s case it is weaning related. My HV was on and on at me when he was a baby to start him on baby rice/purees from 17 weeks onwards and he was just happy on BM. At 5 months she made me feel really guilty for not having pushed much on him food wise and I gave him some baby cereal which he had a violent reaction to. Had I been more confident I would have just carried on as I was. He just didn't really want the food and in hindsight if I'd done BLW with him I don't think it would have ben as bad.

I did do BLW with DCs 2&3 (from 6 months) and they have both been really good eaters, though DC2 has started to refuse things that DC1 refuses which is annoying. Baby DC3 just picks at things i put on her tray - the same as the other 2 are eating - and she helps herself and is happy with everything. I don't take much notice of what is going in though and she still is BF a lot.

If I could go back I would change the way I weaned DC1 but there is obviously no way of knowing now if that would have made any difference.

I'm going to be a fence sitter here - like blondes and nannyL, I too have never met a child that I haven't evenually turned around in terms of eating, nor have I nannied a child from newborn that has turned out to be a fussy eater
however
there will always be exceptions to the rule and I think there is a huge difference between a mere faddy eater and a child who has a psychological issue with food... but are either of these behaviours a case of nature or nurture?

I think that all children certainly pick up on what goes on around around them, and I will always sit down and eat with the children I look after, I will encourage them to help with the food prep and will let them sample any food I have bought etc etc... but then on the over hand this could all be irrelavant as maybe I'm just lucky.

it is also easy for myself as a nanny to sit here and go on about my perfect track record with faddy eaters when everybody know that children act totally differently with their carers than they do with their parents so maybe its a moot point

I haven't really added anything to this have I? lol

Lucia - You forgot to quote me...

Dragonbutter

Maybe there are kids who will be picky eaters anyway, but I do think some people encourage it early on and I think that's a mistake. You should aim for "eat what you are given" where possible. If you encourage pickiness then it can become a game. "I don't like that TODAY get me something else!"

I sort of trained myself to relax. I did the forced jolly smile until it started to feel less forced.

God it was bloody hard work.

But IMO/E it is the only method that works. Slowly but surely I have put the odd new food onto DS's neatly arranged plate and every now and again he deigns to try it.

He's almost 4 now and can be reasoned with a little more.

New discoveries in the past few weeks include tuna (hurrah - a whole new world of sandwiches) and pineapple (his face when he put it in his mouth a realised how blardy delicious it is was fabulous).

I am proud of how far we've come and particularly enjoyed dragonbutter's recent contribution to this thread.

Oh dear have the trolls come out?

shineon - I was about to post a reply but it got lost. It maybe the sugar thing - starting on fruits rather than veg. There are so many factors that come into play when we rear children even down to the way we hold them and talk to them.

I remember a series of documentaries on the nature/nurture debate many many years ago back in the late 1970s when I was a mere slip of a girl. The psychologists had a baby boy dressed up as either a boy or a girl and volunteers were brought in and secretly filmed as they interacted with the baby [they had no idea whether he was male or female]. It was very interesting to see the way they reacted to him when they thought he was a girl - lots of close cuddling and gentle whispering. When he was dressed as a boy it was far more "bouncy" with lots of quite loud "Ooh who's a big lad then" type of comments.

This is a ridiculous OP - even if it were true (which I dont think it is) then you can never unpick all the things people did when weaning or how they ate as a family or what they said or untold other variables in the equation.

So for some people they may have made a child with the propensity to be faddy much more so and other people may have done everything 'perfectly' and still ended up with s faddy child - just like the sleeping or behavior or anything else.

Guess what? All children are different.

Although I will admit here in the policy of full disclosure to having one dustbin (ds 5) and one increasingly picky dd (1) - and I think she is becoming picky because I am quite lax with her diet - much more sweet stuff than ds when I had all the time in the world and using it to keep her quiet etc but thats just me - I dont think she was born more picky, I am just parenting in a more relaxed way.

yes really an excellent post Rabbit.

I also think people have different opions of what fussy is. I used to think DD1 was fussy as she doesn't like tomatoes, picks onions out of food, and only really likes jam sandwiches - this is the sort of fussiness I think you can pander to.

However DS (who is a DT by the way and his twin will eat everything) has truely shown me the meaning of fussy, as described by Rabbit. With this extreme type of fussiness you have to break your child spirit to force them to even lick a carrot, for example. Something I'm not prepared to do to a 3.5yr old.

But tulia... as i've said in my case i think it was my doing. I don't feel ashamed or hung up about it and do not for one minute think every fussy eater is the blame of a parent.

I think the op has posted a very interesting question and it's good to hear both sides.

Sometimes undoubtedly DCs are 'made' but I think YABU to generalise...I have one who is a pain in the a**e to feed but the others are fine. All have always been offered exactly the same food at exactly the same meals with exactly the same options if they don't like it (which is: 'I want to see you eat a mouthful and then if you still don't want it you can leave it). That said, they all have things they do and don't like - but I think that is fair enough because I would rather walk on drawing pins than eat sprouts. If I can have preferences, so can my DCs!

LissyGlitter - 'I remember a little girl coming round ours for tea one night when i was small, and my parents getting a takeaway as a treat. The girl wouldn't eat chinese, indian, chicken or pizza. she ended up eating plain chips. How bloody rude!'

Although your story might or might not prove the point being made by the OP, i think it's a little unfair on your guest all those years ago...I don't know your age (or the guest's), but thirty years ago (when I was around that age) my parents didn't buy takeaways and I'd never had Chinese, Indian or Pizza. I don't think you could have described me as fussy because I ate everything put in front of me, but what was put in front of me was plain English food (meat, mince, fish, stew, potatoes, veg, steamed pudding etc). But I wouldn't have eaten the things this little girl was offered.

In fact I remember going to a friend's house at about this age and a similar thing happening...sorry you were so offended if it was you!

yes that's right lucia39, i'm a troll, you got me. rumbled.

actually thinking about it, my fussy eater won't eat chips...maybe I should be proud to have 'made' her that way
Sadly was not so successful with the others...

kitstwins

Very interested post re reflux and fussiness.

DS had reflux throughout his first year. He was a very unhappy baby, in a lot of pain.

I have always suspected that his food issues were in some way connected to this.

Feeding = uncomfortable/painful sensations that can't be soothed away.

wrinkly - Thanks, I won't. Not worth it.

YABU. Smug, sanctimonious and counter-productive, too, since you asked.

You started a thread to get flamed just to use as a platform for further piety.

Same old, same old.

L-O-S-E-R.

Yawn.

Dull.

Boring.

kitstwins obviously your child is an exception to the rule but you're not attempting to suggest that all fussy eaters suffer similar problems, are you? The fact that your children were premature and had to be tube fed must also have played a part in their development.

Re the comments by PresidentTaylor perhaps young mothers place too much faith in the advice of health visitors and family. Far better to trust instinct in my opinion, as you appear to have done with your other children.

Don't know if she's still read but Penny Leach wrote an awful lot of common-sense about child rearing and of course we all base our own child rearing, to some exent, on the way we were brought up.

rampant - Oh I know that forced smile so well, a bit like this lol. It does get easier, still have the odd bad day when I look more like this or this

Lucia39 Quote [Oh dear have the trolls come out?] - Takes one to know one

Dragonbutter - Applause