to not be happy that the BNP is on itv now doing a broad cast

[FabulousBakerGirl]

?

The thing is, even with a private education, it can be as useless as a crap state education if your parents dont let you out of your bubble a bit, and dont let you think for yourselves.

It would be really wrong of me to poke her with a stick, iyswim.

The other major point here is that there are A LOT of people that agree with her and the BNP in principle, and this government and society as a whole needs to address that. Its no good sticking our fingers in our ears, closing our eyes and saying you are wrong over and over again. There are people that are really unhappy with the state of our racial affairs right now and if we just ignore it - whether this be out of ignorance, fear or just general PCness then there is going to be more unrest and the likes of the BNP will get more and more powerful, and voted for by people who feel they do not have a voice or an opinion and are shouted down (as Luvone has on here).

Talking (not shouting) and addressing the fears of others = understanding and unity.

In fairness MiFlaw - when I held the views that I did back then the people "in the know" were too far up their own arse to listen to what I believed, merely dismissin g me as an idiot with racist views.

The danger of doing that is that it may mean that those that are ignored become even more angry and resentful and not represented, had anyone taken the time to learn why I felt the way I did, or learn about my experiences or the experiences of my parents, it would have put them in a stronger position to educate the next person they came across with similar views, and by listening it diffused my own anger and frustration.

I am in no position to teach anyone anything. I can only learn and form my own opinions.

It's an indictment of any education, IMO, if people are unable to think for themselves, question and empathise by the time they leave school, SpamGlam. The teen years are typically characterised by doubting and questioning one's parents and their values, so ideally it should be natural for that to extend to their values about foreigners, etc. Obviously some parents have more control over their teenaged children than others, though.

It is no coincidence that people that express such views as luvone and the BNP do typically come across as badly educated. I can't say whether you came across as the same in your younger years.

I agree about the importance of talking with each other - and also, just as importantly, listening.

x-posts re listening!

Its a shame that the media play such a huge part in peoples lives. We all believe that we are in a really free democratic society and that the news that we read is not biased but factual. Unfortunately TV, magazines, tabloids and even BNP leaflets can at best be leading and at worst - outright lie!

Education in itself doesnt exactly encourage free thinking either does it? Its a do this, sit here, wear that institution. It actively encourages you to believe everything you are told. Its not really until you get far higher up in education that I believe people really start thinking for themselves and questioning what is really going on, unfortunately the majority of working classes never make it there.

Obviously there are exceptions to every rule...I dont have one GCSE!

I think that is a very fair point.

It is a very fine line, though - too many people did a bit too much listening in the 1930s.

There is also the implication that by listening one understands - but, time and again, the rag-tag assortment of racists and fascists who occasionally post on here have shown themselves to have no rational basis to their belief so that it becomes more like a faith. Its very baselessness then makes it impossible to reason them out of it.

I am aware that I am only raising problems and not suggesting any solutions.

I don't know any, unfortunately.

Oh dear.

Hitler was allowed freedom of speech

I am not suggesting we don't have freedom of speech, but there are considerations

at BNPs openly pro Nazi behaviour. I honestly thought that they were an insignificant party that posed no threat.

Spam - perhaps it depends on the school or subjects taught. I studied history and English lit during my A-levels: both subjects that are all about questioning and analysing people's behaviour, values and choices. I went to a comp, by the way - no private ed for me!

But you see...even listening to their opinion and therefore knowing that it is almost like a faith gives you one up, so to speak.

Knowing that you are trying to reason with blind faith may give you the notion to try a very different approach (not that I have a clue right now what it is).

I think a lot of people feel that they are being patronised too by people in Ivory towers and leafy roads where the "token" black person is a lawyer or doctor.

I know that where my family lived it was mainly white and is now 95% black, and they feel alienated from the place where they have lived all their lives. They feel its not a first come first served but an issue of colour/race. That they are racially abused and are fearful of the new way of life around them.

Its these silent voters that need to be listened to and reassured with facts not opinions, or God help us all...

Ahhhh...I knew you were dead posh MrsMerry...I could tell by your accent!!

Maybe we need you to be a techer for our kids then eh?

luvoneson You said:
"Are they racist? NO" WTF how on earth can you deny that?

"How would you lot feel if one of your loved ones was blown up on the tube by an illegal immigrant suicide bomber."
My Ex was in Kingscross Tube that day so don't use that emotive bullshit. He was also a British born asian, who was searched for weeks after the attack everytime he was in a train station. He never once complained. If the BNP get into power he will be treated like a second class citizen in his own country.

"Do you like having to wait for months for a hospital appt, when all our spaces are being taken up by foreigners etc etc I could go on." I couldn't join a DR surgery for a year because their was no space. So um still no I won't vote for the BNP. Mostly it's because of over crowding and building it isn't always to do with 'foreigners' and seeing as your mostly talking about illegal immigrants, most won't go do DR/Hospitals in fear of being deported.

"Dont start me off. If you lot like living in what was once a beautiful country which has been taken over by foreigners (some illegal) then good for you."
Our beautiful county has participated in slavery, destroying other countries/continents such as Africa and then fucked off and left a scared country. It has participated in War's that it's people don't want. It ignore blatant child abuse. I could go on but pretending we are a beautiful and pure country well love you need to read some history books.

"My dh loves paying over 40percent tax which part of goes to keeping these people on benefits. Its not just the foreigners its other things as well. I could go on all night."

My DH pays very high taxes too but it mostly goes to British born people whom for many reasons don't work. Please provide some supporting evidence before you band your lies around.

Do you really want to grow up in a country that is only considered acceptable for a white man and woman to be married and raise children, a couples marital status to be noticed when a child begins school to 'predict' problems, a child to be removed from their mothers custody if she has an affair but no consequences if a father does, corporal punishment in schools, segregation of the basis of race?

And then our country can be 'Beautiful'

Your reasons for voting BNP are weak and pathetic.

OMG did they actually say that only mothers would lose custody for being unfaithful but not fathers?

Yes Pramspotter will try and find the link. I couldn't believe my eyes! Odd how they didn't mention what would happen to a father if he had an affair.

Here it is www.scribd.com/doc/15109757/BNP-White-Paper-on-Family-Law

There is a thread on it somewhere too, think it might be in news.

Notice as well the married mans tax allowance, nothing for women? To promote traditional marriages and kept women.... big surprise.

I noticed that almost sounded like they want to outlaw cohabiting parents, especially the part where they want it to be noted if parents are married when a child joins school so they can predict problems.

Good grief, the BNP are virtually the Taliban - how ironic!!!

let's pretend for a moment, the BNP aren;t racist, even so:

they are misogynist, they are xenophobic, homophobic, holocaust deniers....quite a number of the members and activists have convictions for some very nasty activities..

they do not want equal rights for women.

they do not want equal rights for homosexuals and lesbians

they only want nice white married couples to live here.

am baffled as to how any educated and sentient can vote for them

If they want to promote the family unit they should start mandatory classes for men to teach them about being responsible for their children no matter what as well as a course on how to not think with your dick. Bingo. Less broken families.

I don't care who lives here but I think the population should be capped at 60 million. We don't have the space for many more than that. We need those fields to grow food because one day fossil fuels will run out and the cost of imports will be shooting up.

Personally I would chuck out those who can't use apostrophes properly.

You'll be on a boat.

I'm all for getting rid of apostrophe criminals.

Seriously, though, Elizabeth I was worried about population overcrowding when it was at 5 million.

Let's not jump the gun on how many we can support - perhaps the population will find its own balance as it always has before?

Can we get rid of all the people who pay for $10 worth of shopping with pennies? I always end up in line behind these people. Put them on the boat.

So who wants to know something about the esteemed leader of the BNP? Especially for those who vote for them, or think they are an option, or who even think they should be given a platform....
Heres a nice quote, in his own words;
"I am well aware that orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated or turned into soup and lampshades. I have reached the conclusion that the 'extermination' tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria"
Doesn;t that tell us everything we need to know?

Then theres the fact that they came out of the National Front, founders were convicted of nail bombings and racial assaults, amongst other things.

To whoever is stupid enough to think that the BNP are not racist, do they not know that the BNP constitution specifically seeks to "stem the tide of NON_WHITE immigration", NOT immigration as a whole.

Its easy to be pragmatic about the BNP if you are white and British. Let them have free speech, let them broadcast, they are a legit party.

Fuck off (in the nicest possible way mumsnetters

The BNP dont just hate immigrants. They hate ALL none whites. Non whites like my husband and my kids.

So it there was a party who wanted free speech who also wanted to seperate you from your children, make them stateless and annul your mongrol marriage, would you be so laid back.

These people hate my children, they think they are worthless. They think my husband is worthless and criminal. He who has actually done something for this country. He has fought for this country and worked his whole life since in the public sector. He has been paying taxes since he left school. But he is a monkey to these wankers.

My kids are not worthy of an education. They should not be allowed to mix with your children. They are scum - my babies are scum.

Hate crimes go UP whenever a BNP candidate is elected.

The BNP may be a joke but they aint very funny from where I am standing.

'Let's not jump the gun on how many we can support - perhaps the population will find its own balance as it always has before'

THe trouble is it tends to do this through disease, starvation and war.