what is everyone elses opinions?

[TheLadyEvenstar]

Ok was just talking to my friend and we were discussing baby P and the sentences given to the scum who killed him. My friend said they were fair sentences and I said they were not and that no sentenced served in a prison where they get 3 square meals a day, recreation time where they have games consoles, pool tables, etc, a bed, and everything else is a fair sentence and that scum like that deserve no less than a death sentence.
Now she doesn't agree she thinks that it is unfair to the families of the murderer to suffer...I on the other hand am not of the same mind set....what do you ladies think?

If we're speaking specifically of paedophiles and not the general criminal population I do agree that is a difficult one.
Can they truly be reintegrated into society? I'm not sure. It may be possible for some.

I agree there is no perfect solution drlove. And I can't say that I blame you for wanting revenge.

No way can a paedophile be cured of paedophillia, its in there make up... you cant turn a straight person gay or a gay person straight in the same way,( im not comparing gays or straights to pervs, just couldnt think of another way to explain what i mean)The thing with paedophiles is that they do not think they are doing anything wrong, they consider the abuse they cause to be "relationships".

I agree it would be very difficult to rehabilitate them. I do wonder if some see it as wrong though I know that there is a group out there called NAMBLA, who try to justify adult/child relationships and make them acceptable to the mainstream.

I think this whole debate centres on what people understand the purpose of prison to be - is it punishment or rehabilitation?

AFAIK, numerous studies (in addition to the high rate of re-offending) have demonstrated that the concept that prison can effectively rehabilitate people is null and void. Prisoners are not being rehabilitated, emerging from prison and all of a sudden contributing to societal welfare.

I feel that prison should be a punishment rather than a mere segregation from society. Thus, prisoners should not have the same rights as those on the outside. They should not have televisions, cigarettes etc. They should do hard labour and repent for their crimes.

In terms of the death penalty, I don't have strong opinions either way. For me, it's not about acting as a deterrent. It's the ultimate punishment and something that the victim's family can gain a measure of peace through. At the same time, if the UK had the option to give mandatory life sentences with no possibility of parole, then the death sentence shouldn't be necessary. Unfortunately, the Human Rights Act and membership of the EC means that our hands are tied.

The sentences of Baby P's killers are far too lenient. But unless our entire political system changes, there's not a lot anyone can do about this.

I don't understand people who complain about the human rights act. I'm pretty damn grateful for it. It benefits all of us and there may come a time when it prevents you, a general you, from abuse and harm.

I think prison should be both punishment and rehabilitation. I favour prevention and if the system is reformed, as it needs to be in a variety of ways, rehabilitation may be possible for some.

I agree there are people who shouldn't be released but of course the statistics won't show good rehabilitation rates when the provisions for rehabiltation of prisoners are so poor.

Most are flung out with very little help or support and prison life is all they know and all they can handle.

Our refusal to look at and acknowledge the factors that often lead people to abuse and offend doesn't help either.

I don't believe we need to treat prisoners badly either. Of course it isn't a holiday camp as people often refer to it, but what holiday camp restricts one's freedom so?

They don't have their freedom, that's a pretty severe punishment, particuarly when coupled with the ever present threat of violence.

You treat people like animals, and they'll continue to behave like them.
Hard labour and poor conditions? What will that do? Just breed more anger, hate and resentment and it will do nothing to solve the underlying causes of crime.

It won't make them feel sorry for their victims, sorry for the treatment they are suffering perhaps but I can see it breeding only resentment not penance.

PS. I do agree that longer sentences are needed in many cases but if we care to help prevent crime as well as punish those who commit it, we need other solutions also.

Rock and there lies the problem imho. Prison is a walk in the park compared to what these people would face in society. They get luxuries and for what??? abusing the innocent.

I agree if there is not to be a death penalty then there should be hard labour, chain gangs. not sewing things which are then sold on....(which is what happens) and they being paid. Paid to commit a crime, where is the deterrent?

And another thing I will never understand how and why the hell someone who is in a secure hospital/unit is allowed a mobile phone!!!

I'll return to this in the morning. Right now all I want to do is eat chocolate, drink tea, and watch the movie that I've been intending to watch for a week now.

Whilst it would be nice to think that rehabilitation is the ultimate aim, I'm far too cynical to believe that it works. I'm aware that numerous prisoners have had extremely dysfunctional backgrounds and many have mental health problems. Nonetheless, the people in prison made their choices, were convicted and should be duly punished.

I wish the Human Rights Act would be repealed. The legislation is too much of a grey area and judicial interpretation of the Convention Rights mean that far too much tolerance is given to perpetrators rather than victims of crime.

In addition, trying to address 'the underlying causes of crime' would require a radical shake up of society that no government would ever be prepared to do. Furthermore, the belief that those who commit crime only do it because something is wrong with society seems naive to me. For centuries, people have committed sick and heinous crimes because they wanted to. If you think of the serial killers over the centuries as well as those who enjoy perpetrating mindless violence because it gives them some kind of rush, it seems clear that such people aren't a product of a screwed up society, but merely individuals who have something fundamentally wrong with them, inherent in themselves. It may not be fashionable to say it, but some people are wholly evil and no amount of 'rehabiliation' will alter this.

I want to respond to this right now, but if I do I'll never get to watch my movie. so I will do so tomorrow.

There is abuse going on under our noses all the time... there must have been neighbours who heard and wondered... people who saw marks and thought... "should I?"
There will always be people... perhaps abused themselves, who don't see children as humans with rights... it's up to us all, no matter how scared we are of looking stupid or wrong, to voice our concerns.
Prevention is better than blame...

"...but some people are wholly evil and no amount of 'rehabiliation' will alter this."

I doubt there are very many of these at all.

And how convenient, how easy and how simple to get out of taking any responsibility for anything by blaming some genetics.

"...If you think of the serial killers over the centuries as well as those who enjoy perpetrating mindless violence because it gives them some kind of rush, it seems clear that such people aren't a product of a screwed up society"

Well, only if you believe that we have had a perfectly functioning society over the last few centuries! Jack the Ripper carried out his crimes in London in the 1880s. I'm sure you're aware that Victorian society wasn't idyllic. Poverty, child labour, opium dens, prostitution.... it wasn't exactly a utopia!

I think there's a tendency (particularly amongst older generations) to think that modern day society is a hot-bed of sin and that 'it was better in the past'. Hmmmm, not so.

I'm of mixed opinions. I do think that prisons are a bit lenient, but a lot of people do gain from them - they receive training etc while there are there.
I don't know what the alternative would be.

excellent post stewie.

i remember another poster writing something similar just after the babyp case came out.

very sad but very true.

Hear hear stewie.