To think that good manners in children are overrated?

[mrsruffallo]

Manners seem so important to some parents. Personally, I don't believe in forcing them to say sorry, please, thank you, hello, goodbye etc.
If it is a genuine emotion they say it naturally anyway
AIBU?

Manners are very important but so is the way you teach children manners.

I agree with the OP in that I don't think the best approach is to bully them into saying please and thank you.

It's something you can start gently from about the age of 2 IMO. My DD manages a squeaky 'pease' and 'thank you'.

It's like cleaning your teeth twice a day - make manners a normal, regular part of life.

Of course good manners are important but I do feel uncomfortable when the parent of a very small child keeps badgering them 'say bye-bye to edam. Say bye-bye. SAY bye-bye!' I really don't mind if a 2yo doesn't want to say it. Especially when they have been nice and well-behaved all the time we have spent together, or are actually waving at me.

Or people withhold things from toddlers until they say 'ta' (and I don't like 'ta' anyway but that's a whole other thread and probably snobbish/regional). Seems mean to punish a toddler for something they don't really understand.

Suppose it's about appropriate expectations for the child's age.

I do object to the 5/6 yos who come to play with ds and grab things, or don't say please and thank you, or do what they are damn well asked, though. I've cooked them tea, they can bloody well come to the table and say 'thank you'!

In my language there isn't really the equivalent of "you are welcome". My nieces and nephews will say "thank you" and not snatch or grab things but that doesn't mean they are less polite than the English children!!

I agree that manners are important. It's polite, it means they are acknowledging others, learning to live with others. It means that they will get on better in life and won't be moaned about on MN in 10-15 years time.

yabu, although somepeople do discourage it but hopefully i dont have much day to day contact with these sort.

Manners oil our society. We live on a small crowded island which is why we (like the Japanese) are so seemingly obsessed with manners.

Children who are never taught good manners are not being taught how to live in our society.

There are hundreds of threads on here about people pushing in in queues, stepping in front of old ladies to get on the bus, barging pregnant women on the tube, taking up 15 seats for them and their children on crowded trains when 3 would have done etc etc.

People react strongly against these things as we are a very polite society. We condemn people who behave like this.

To not teach children good manners does the rest of society a terribly disservice.

But those are examples of being thoughtless and self centered.
I am talking about the parents who are obsessive about their young children greeting/ saying thank you etc

I agree with the OP.

There have been occassions I have felt uncomfortable with the pressure applied to children at groups etc I take my DD to by their parents or carers to act in a certain way. It has felt like the parents are showing far worse manners towards the child by insisting on them doing something just so, than the child is in the first place by not using the right phrase. I think the attitude of a person, and the tone of requests are more important than using the right phrases. Really 'pleases' and 'thank you's' and things like that are just social nicieties and are said from habit more frequently than from genuine feeling. They have a place, and adults should talk about this with children and model the behaviour they want to see, but repeating phrases parrot fashion doesn't teach children about gratitude or consideration for others, it teaches them that saying the right things is more important than how you feel. Its not a bad lesson, there are times its absolutely true. But I think they need to come the other way around - children need that understanding of why we have these social interactions and what they express or represent, before they need to learn that sometimes for the sake of politeness we use these phrases without all of that feeling behind them.

I also don't think that 'sorry' is about manners at all, and I really don't think children ought to be made to say sorry if they aren't. With DD I never make her say sorry because making her say it doesn't make her feel it and I would rather not teach her that things can be made right with an insincere apology. Instead I tell her that what has been done needs to be fixed and that as the one who caused it she needs to make it right but I will help her. If I feel sorry about what she's done then I will apologise because I do feel sorry and it shows a good example, but she will still have to help me fix it (comfort or make a peace offering to a child, mend or replace something, etc). I think that is a far better lesson for children to learn. Interestingly, my DD will almost always say sorry after we have made an effort to fix the situation, but will actively avoid it before then. I don't have a problem with this at all, I think that when it happens that way round it is a genuine sorry because DD has realised that her actions have an effect on others and has understood that she can also help to make it better - the words mean something to her and the apology comes from her.

I would say that behaving towards others in a respectful and considerate way is simply a matter of good manners.

Some people are right bastards but they still hold the door open for the person behind them etc, not because they truly understand that they should in their hearts, but because they have been taught that it is good manners.

I always say please and thank-you to people in shops, bus drivers, people who let me pass on the street with the pushcahir etc. I don't always really mean it, but it is socially the polite thing to do so. It makes people behave themselves in an orderly fahion. How dismal it would be if people only said and did the "niceties" if they actually meant them.

I wonder if the parents who have to insist or bully the child to say please/thankyou in public is because they do not behave like this at home...ie the parents dont speak politely and with manners to their children in their own home but expect the children to somehow behave better outside the home. It is about example as most things are but they still need encouragement and support.

Good manners is a very useful thing to have.

But to spend all your time loudly nagging your child about manners when in the presence of others is not imho ...Good Manners.

I would want any child of mine to have impeccable manners. I feel mine are good most of the time (although my brother's are terrible - think there's only so much a parent can do if a child really stubbornly refuses to acknowledge the importance of good manners and general politeness).

The downside is that when you know what to look for, other people can seem very rude! I need to work on not letting bad manners rile me so much

Yabu Children should be brought up with good manners never did me no harm as a child....

oyster my brother is just the same

selfish little brute...

I do think that manners are very important. But they should be short and sweet for little ones.

Saying sorry, thank you, learning not to inerrupt (lord do they ever learn that one?!) learning to behave at the table etc. All good and very necessary in my book.

But I do recall one friend who used to take it all way to far imo. Her poor dd even only at 3 or 4 used to be badgered into saying thank you, and good bye and kissing people individually all the blimmin time it seemed to me.

It used to take them ages to leave anywhere because she had to be taken round to everyone individually. It was like she was constantly on the poor kids case. I don't agree with that.

I always go by the philosophy 'treat others the way you would like to be treated yourself'. Your children are an extension of you and I really hate rude children - simple as.

I think manners are VERY important........ My ds has to go to London a lot to the hospital and he has been taught to give up his seat on the tube if someone else hasnt got a seat. He opens doors for people, steps out of peoples way when they are coming towards him on the pavement, says please and thankyou and escorts the old ladies back to their flats in the sheltered housing when we got to games evenings there! Manners maketh men!!!

Manners are important.
DD is 5 and after intensive attention to detail now says "please" "thank you" "may I get down now?" and "I'm sorry, I don't like food X" (she used to say "oh yuk no! food X is revolting") but she is under strict instructions to never utter the words "disgusting" or "revolting" in relation to food when offered at someone else's house...!

She is very very popular with other mums and she is constantly invited back to her friend's houses "because she is so lovely".

I get lots of free after school time...super duper.

So that little bit of effort with manners really pays off all round.

We always taught ours by example, but did remind them if required. I was always saddened by the number of people who thought it necessary to comment on the 'lovely' manners of our 2 DS's,from shop staff through to teachers and other adults they have come into contact with. i was saddened that to have decent manners was considered so unusual that it prompted such comments!

I work in a school and certainly, my cooleagues and I do notice the manners of the chldren and it does change our perception of them.

I think it is very sad that to have good manners appears to be considered a weakness in today's society!

'I don't think any of us who promote good manners behave differently from the way we try and encourage our children to behave, so it's not one rule for us and one rule for them.'

This is why it is so easy to do, it is just by example. There is no point in bullying a DC into saying thank you, but if you continually say it yourself to someone who holds open a door, the bus driver when you get off the bus etc it just becomes part of life-they do it automatically.
I would much rather have my DCs well liked, because they are polite, than people thinking they are rude.

My DD is 2.8. I would never ever badger her to say thank you or goodbye or whatever but I do remind her when she hasn't thought of it herself. I think a reminder is fine. Badgering is not. Hopefully by the time she is 4 or 5, she will remember what she needs to say a lot more often. But she does know that thank you is what to say when you are really grateful and when we go to the supermarket, we often spend a good ten minutes with her saying 'Thank you, Mummy! Thank you!' and me saying 'That's fine, darling. You're welcome.' because I have agreed to get her a Night Garden comic or a hot sausage from the cooked meat counter. And yes, she eats it before we have paid.

I think teaching children basic manners like 'please' 'thank you' 'excuse me' 'sorry' are very important.

My mother always says she likes to hear a child say 'please may I leave the table?' which I think sounds a little old fashioned, but perhaps we could do with a more up to date version such as 'can I go and play now mum?' Yes, I'll introduce that (I'm just thinking out loud as I'm typing!!). I do mean at home - DS would never be allowed to run around in a restaurant. We've always avoided particular child-friendly restaurants on the basis that bad habits would be picked up from other children.

DS has always found using his cutlery difficult but perhaps as he's getting older I need to concentrate on this more (I don't mean he uses his hands like some children who come round to our house for tea, but that he physically finds cutting up difficult (like writing) so I tend to still do this for him

I obsessed about dd saying please and thankyou. I made her say thank you to shop assistants when we went shopping and I explained that people in jobs like this get very little praise or feedback and we have to show them they are appreciated. I told her that saying thank you to people who do a job for you or help you out is very important. That's whether they're bus drivers, shop assistants, teachers, whatever.

I try to get her to think of why she's saying it, but frankly, I don't care if she's feeling it. She says it and she says it pleasantly too, or she incurs the wrath of squilly.

IMO and IME throughout my career, people who say please, thank you and show an obvious regard for other people without being obsequious are seen as thoughtful, caring and socially mature individuals.

People who don't say please and thank you are considered rude, brusque and generally are not well liked.

DD will continue to be bullied into saying please and thank you if she happens to miss it (which she does occasionally) and I will never stop pulling her up on this particular social faux pas as I consider it a complete no-no.