Should this really have been shown on the lunchtime news?

[EasterBump]

I was totally shocked & unprepared to witness those scenes of Marnie Pearce saying goodbye to her children on the lunchtime news today.

I have not followed her case in any level of detail, but surely there are no circumstances that can excuse putting innoccent children through that?

There's a link to the footage here.

Just as a kind of warning, I found it particularly harrowing. Not sure it should really have been shown on the lunchtime news without some kind of a warning really.

Poppity, the handing in of the petition was suspended last minute after a promise from the Dubai authorities that they would review Marnie Pearce's position in regards to the deportation order and custody issues. Marnie was released last week early and the deportation order suspended so that she is now able to remain in Dubai to fight the custody case.

There are lots of things on the news that are not appropriate for small children to watch, so would not have the TV on @ lunchtime! If there are no children present then YABU - it is perfectly proper, and desirable for adults to know what is going on in the world!

sachertorte - i couldn't give a shit if you do or don't have anything against my partner or me for that matter. That is not the issue.

YOU are the one who is biased, not me. I HAVE seen this issue from both sides, as a mother who went to court because the father of her child had made various applications for access and as a partner of a man who went to court to get fair and equal access to his child.

YOu are backtracking re your statement about failure also.

BFG how can you say that? (the custody of her children is no-one else's concerns, and I certainly don't think that the British government should get involved in that). She is British, her British children are being taken from her by an overseas legal system... would you not want help from the British Embassy? I know I would. Mind you, I wouldn't be in her position in the first place, I would not take the risk having children with someone from his background as this is what can happen and often does.

But she is not living in Britain. And her children are not British; they are half British, half Egiptian.

If Marnie Pearce and her husband had been livin here and had divorced do you think it would have been appropriate for the Egiptian government to get involved to ensure her husband get custody of the children?

yes the Embacy should get involved re her sentence, but now that she has been released it is not for our government to get involved. the custody of children is not a political issue; it is a personal one.

chippingIn - ''I would not take the risk having children with someone from his background as this is what can happen and often does. ''

Life doesn't always work like that. You fall in love, you want to be together do you go, actually on second thoughts your government's laws are shit I think we should split up. I find that sort of statement verging on the racist.

I just got a letter from my MP with a copy of a letter from the minister respinsiblke for consular matters in the Middle East - basically it says adultery is a criminal offence in the middle east and "there are no international agreements which specifically prohibit adultery being a criminal offence"

Maybe that's where we need to start?

"But she is not living in Britain. And her children are not British; they are half British, half Egiptian.

If Marnie Pearce and her husband had been livin here and had divorced do you think it would have been appropriate for the Egiptian government to get involved to ensure her husband get custody of the children? "

couldn't agree more. as distasteful as it is to see such scenes it is absolutely nothing to do with the british government. there have been a lot of posts regarding countries which have an attitude of men being the head of the family and being granted custody as a matter of routine.
how would you expect the british gov. to respond if the seperation occured in england,custody granted to the mother and then the fathers home countries government attempted to wade in and dictate what the correct custody agreement should be.
you'd want the government to tell them where to go and that it was none of their business.
now that the british citizen has been released from jail the custody of the children in a foreign country is really none of their business.

That's great news Bizzie, I wonder why the website hasn't been updated to show that?

BFG, I think you are right if it was a straightforward custody case. The part which particularly required intervention imo was the deportation, potentially meaning she would be unable to see them again.
There is also the issue that they would have a stay at home parent living with their father. He is often away with his work apparently, and the children would be raised mostly by the maid.
I realise different counties have different ideals, but I can't bring myself to agree it is in the best interests of the children to never see their mother again and be living mostly with the home help.
Also, when cultures and expectations are so different, is it not a good idea to have some diplomatic knowledge and help in dealing with it?

I hope it is as hugely a positive thing as it seems that she has been allowed to stay in the country though.

''But she is not living in Britain. And her children are not British; they are half British, half Egiptian. ''

total bollocks.

Are you saying that unless both your parents are British you are not British and the British Governement should not assist you in matters abroad? That's me buggered then...

What the hell makes you British, if not a passport?

but they are not only British, they are also part Egiptian. So if you are saying the British government should have a say in their custody, then so should the Egiptian government, and if not, why not?

The custody of these children is not a government issue. The woman has been released from prison, her deportation order has been suspended, now it is up to her lawyers to do the best for her wrt custody of her children. Or do you think that other countries should get involved with custody hearings over here that do not follow their norms?

Firstly, one of the roles of the British Consulate is to ensure the wellbeing of it's citizens, the fact that they have dual nationality does not come into it.

Secondly, I do believe that the government is right to get involved in other countries legal decisions on this and any other if it is in the interests of it's citizens to do so. They intervene on many legal matters abroad and this is a situation that effects many people in many countries.

What a horrid video. I couldn't watch the end. I have just given little dd the biggest squeeze.

I don't know very much about the case, but it sounds terrible. My heart just goes out to her.

I don't think it should not be shown, but perhaps a warning that the video may be found to be distressing for some should be put up before it is shown.

ps mayorquinby and the BFG are you one and the same or can neither of you spell Egyptian?

no we are not the same.

So you agree then that the Egyptian government also should be able to get involved in this if they feel it would be in the best interests of their citizens? After all, these children are as much Egyptian as they are British, and just because people here feel that awarding custody to the mother is in the children's best interests doesn't mean that it is or that the Egyptian government couldn't argue that staying with their father is in their best interests.

You honestly think that such a misgynous system cares about the best interests of the children?

That tearing them screaming from their mothers arms and then imprisoning her for three months is in the best intersts of the children.

I really don;t care if people are pushung fathers rights agendas in general, but this is not the case to draw any parallels.

And I think governments should get involved in any case where such a blatant injustice, and further, tyranny, has occured on a person and/or persons with UK citizenship.

But it could be argued that raising children as racists isn't in their best interests either, given the comments on her site about the maid...

When both parents want to be with their children 7 days a week as probably most of us do and the parents have spilt you need the wisdom of Solomon to do justice. The issue is heart rending for men and women all the time.

We even just had a judge quoting Larkin in a recent decision. I think his paragraphs below and perhaps even the whole judgment should be read by all divorcing parents..

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2009/358.html

"Postscript

For the reasons given in paragraph 122, I cannot leave the case without addressing some remarks directly to CR's parents. In a recent case, Re T (a child) [2009] EWCA Civ 20, I conducted a similar exercise, and expressed myself in wholly conventional terms. Both of the other members of the constitution expressly associated themselves with what I said, which was as follows: -

66. I cannot part with this appeal without addressing a few words directly to L's parents. The judge was plainly right to find that both parents love L, and that, in turn, she loves them and is "happy with either". However, the judge was also right, in my view, to find that there is a risk to L if her parents "continue to be at loggerheads". Indeed, I would put the matter more strongly. If the parents retain their current hostility to each other, they will undoubtedly cause L serious emotional harm.

67. L is a child of mixed heritage, and in my judgment it is essential that she benefits from both parts of it. What matters, in my view, is that L should have love and respect for each of her parents and should be able to move easily between them. To achieve this, the parents must have respect for each other.

68. Each parent represents 50% of L's gene pool. Children, moreover, learn about relationships between adults from their parents. In twenty years time it will not matter a row of beans whether or not L spent x or y hours more with one parent rather than the other: what will matter is the relationship which L has with her parents, and her capacity to understand and engage in mutually satisfying adult relationships. If she is given a distorted view of adult relationships by her parents, her own view of them will be distorted, and her own relationships with others ? particularly with members of the opposite sex ? will be damaged.

69. L must therefore be able to appreciate that even though her parents are separated, they have respect for each other. Most disputes about children following parental separation have nothing to do with the children concerned: they are about the parents fighting all over again the battles of the past, and seeking retribution for the supposed ills and injustices inflicted on them during the relationship. This case shows every sign of going that way.

70. The father and the mother share equal responsibility for this state of affairs, and the father in particular should not regard the outcome of this appeal as a victory: it is, in reality, a defeat for both parties, who have been unable to resolve their differences by sensible agreement. They are fortunate in having a daughter whom they both love and who loves them. Each must fully appreciate the role the other has to play in L's life, and the current hostility between them must cease. Otherwise, in my judgment, the emotional damage to L will be serious and lasting.

I resile from nothing which I said in Re T. In the present case, however, I propose to express myself in similar terms, but more forcefully, I do so because, in my judgment, the damage in the present case has gone well beyond that foreseen in Re T. Indeed, as I read the papers in the instant appeal, and, in particular, the report and the oral evidence of Professor Zeitlin, and listened to the careful arguments addressed to us, I was powerfully reminded of the first four lines of Philip Larkin's poem This be the Verse:

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.

They may not mean to, but they do.

They fill you with the faults they had

And add some extra, just for you.

The rest of the poem seems to me to say more about Philip Larkin himself than it does about the human condition, but these four lines seem to me to give a clear warning to parents who, post separation, continue to fight the battles of the past, and show each other no respect.

Separated parents, in my experience, frequently fail to understand that their children love both of them, and have loyalty to both. Such an attitude on the part of children is normally as it should be. The fact that one parent has come to hate the other, or that both hate each other is no reason for the child not to love both and have loyalty to both. It thus poses the most enormous difficulties for the children of separated parents when each parent vilifies the other, or makes it clear that he or she has no respect for the other.

CR's parents have undoubtedly caused him serious harm by their ongoing, mutual dislike and recriminations. They need, accordingly, to ask themselves a series of hard questions. Why is it, that Professor Zeitlin, with his wealth of professional knowledge and experience advised that consideration should be given to CR living with foster parents? Why is it that the guardian, with her wealth of different professional knowledge and experience, advised the judge that CR needed to be taken out of the arena? And why was it that that judge, with his wealth of humanitarian and forensic skill accepted the guardian's advice? If the parents are fundamentally honest, as I believe they are, the answers will not be far to seek.

This mother and father are no different from many separated parents who make the damage to their children caused by their separation much worse by continuing their battles against each other in legal proceedings. They have already caused CR serious harm. Our judgments offer them, with, I hope, the help of Professor Zeitlin, an opportunity to mitigate that damage. If they do not so, they may well lose the care of their child.

For all the reasons I have given, however, I would grant permission to appeal, allow the appeal and make the order set out in paragraph 3."

The father is inhuman if he can so casually see his children so distressed at being torn away from their mother.

I agree about many father's getting a raw deal in the UK but why bring all that this into this particular case?

What racist comments? Can you post a link to them?

Xenia, I find that quote astonishing - this is an educated person I assume, who will have no dount read Hume, yet for some reason cannot stop himself assuming 'ought' from 'is'. I find it scary that such people command anything like respect for rational judgement, when rationalism seems to have little to do with it.

My God I agree wioth Xenia - thers' a sentance I never thought I'd write

Back to the OP though, I disagree with you. If this brought the story to more people's attention then hopefully soemthing can be done about it.

I too waspleased to hear the older child questioning his father and hope that in time as they get older they will remember their mother and go back to her - no good in the mean time I know.

And what a complete and utter fuckwitting bastard. How on earth could he drive away fromt eh mother of his childrne like that and let them see her like that.

I hope my girls never fall in love with someone from a completely different culture that sees women as second class citezens.

I think your points are interesting Xenia

I also find this case interesting because it is powerful because the British (tabloid) media have decided to get involved.

It IS a sad case but there are so many more important things for the British Government to be doing - this would be total madness for anyone to get involved with. The only reason that the mother can't have access is because the father has decided that's the way it's going to be.

Have friends working in Sri Lanka at the moment and their stories are horrific - but unfortunately the British press find all that human tragedy a bit too dull

God I can;t type today - citizens!