to be bl**dy furious that my DD has measles because other parents won't vaccinate?

[elportodelgato]

poor DD is only 11 mo and has horrid measles all over her, full of cold, streaming eyes, diarrhea, very unhappy and sleepy and limp. I am so so for her, but more I am absolutely bloody with idiot parents who won't have the MMR!

The doctor actually told me this morning that the reason it is so prevalent in our area is because of stupid people refusing to vaccinate their children and compromising the immunity of the whole group. So now my LO, who is only 2 months off having the vaccination herself, is really really sick because of other people's stupidity. It's making my blood boil! Do people not realise how dangerous it can be in little babies? And does anyone still seriously believe the so called "research" which claimed a link between MMR and autism? It has been so completely discredited in recent years you would think people would have got over it by now and started vaccinating again

Arrgh!!

Thanks Leonie.

and no I'm not supposed to be feeding my DS money - I'm supposed to be feeding my DS3

and expat!
Is there concerns about vaccines over there like there is here?

what does o rly mean?

Erm SomeGuy - you do realise that the vaccine itself costs money don't you (as will Halvorsen's time- a private SALT costs at least £50 an hour so a doctor will be more).

But as I said Halvorsen has been giving his NHS patients single jabs for free for years (the only NHS doctor in the UK to do so) - he obviously can't do the same for his private patients. As I said before I also know people who have consulted him who he has advised not to vaccinate. That hardly seems the actions of a someone money motivated.

YANBU. At all. Hope your DD feels better soon.
SomeGuy - ah, Richard Halvorsen. I knew him when he was trying to break into journalism. Guess that gig didn't quite work out...

good on yer, mrstrunip.

Good post.

But it will be buried in this fervour i reckon.

IN the US you can get out of vaccinations. Depends on the State - in some you can register a philosophical objection, in others a religious objection. I belong to a number of autism online groups and have observed many people taking this course in the States over the years.

Likewise in France where vaccinations are supposedly compulsory you can have homeopathic ones instead and that will be accepted.

saintlydamemrsturnip
My problem with the Wakefield research is that the scare that followed the publication was in no way related to the very small "at risk" children.

Of course I would think differently if my child was on the autistic spectrum, or we had a history of autism in the family.

My point is that the research done by Wakefield and the subsequent scare caused many people to reject the vaccine. If it is true that it is mainly children with a predisposed risk of autism who are most at risk, then we should be attempting to find a way of minimising the risk. Not scaring the bejeesus out of every parent in the country.

I also believe that individual vaccines should be made available if the parents want it.

oops - I'm OK in RL the most fervent are the ones who run a mile from DS1 (ironically the only child of mine vaccinated -I think they think LD's and autism are catching). But that suits me fine

yep, that's why i said 'largely' true. not always.

there have been some outbreaks of disease, but mostly isolated.

Not sure how many NHS patients Halvorsen can be treating, he'd be too busy offering telephone consultations at £85 for 30 minutes to do much of that.

Seems he's into all manner of quackery: accupuncture and homeopathy are also on his list: web.mac.com/richardhalvorsen1/iWeb/Dr%20Halvorsen/Dr%20Richard%20Halvorsen.html

I've read it Leonie. Can't see what you are so upset about.

A lot of people do not agree with you, that is true.

Is this why you consider them sanctimonious?

xfabba

"And if they are so convinced that the MMR does not have an unacceptable rate of adverse reactions why havent they funded definitive research to show that? Would save a lot of money in the long run you'd have thought. "

Who do you mean by "they" - do you mean the government?

So what if GPs are funded in part on vaccine rates? They are also funded to know patients smoking status, hypertension, diabetes. It is a consistent part of a policy geared at health promotion and tackling chronic illness, and I dont see any conspiracy in it.

i just get bored of the "i'm right aand feck the ret of you stuff here somteimes"

Life is a very very complicated thing, and one of the best things we can learn is to listen, think and be tolerant.

And mrsturnip has written down perfectly why sometimes it isn't in a child's best interests to be vaccinated. I'm off to work in a min, but i could find a paper about some kids not tolerating/metaobilsing/excreting heavy metals too- and this can be a reasaon not to vaccinate.

If you have 1 autistic child, do you think you'd vaccinate the others?

The USA have given compo to one child they admit was damged by vaccs.... now how many others do you think there are?

Not all kids will be-
many many kids will be fine.

But have some tolerance for the parents of those kids who amy or may not be likely to have problems after- they have the toughest decision to make of all.

Marla - what are you talking about? I am not aware of having made any reply to you at all.

Erm well I'm not sure that Wakefield can be held responsible for the scare. He was very clear before the press conference that if asked he would recommend using singles instead of MMR (which is all he's ever suggested- single mumps vaccine is more effective than MMR anyway so makes sense to use it for other reasons). When the question was asked it was directed at him by the Dean of the Royal Free. He could have directed the question at someone else on the panel who would not have answered as Wakefield did. Wakefield had also met with the Dept of Health to express his concern.

The Lancet paper itself did not make the suggestion.

Had the govt offered the single jabs as an alternative I don't think there would have been any sort of media scare (and guess what ds2 and ds3 still wouldn't have been vaccinated).

Had Wakefield been allowed to continue his work, had the children he was treating been allowed to continue receiving treatment then maybe we would know more about autistic enterocolitis than we know now.

Erm well I'm not sure that Wakefield can be held responsible for the scare. He was very clear before the press conference that if asked he would recommend using singles instead of MMR (which is all he's ever suggested- single mumps vaccine is more effective than MMR anyway so makes sense to use it for other reasons). When the question was asked it was directed at him by the Dean of the Royal Free. He could have directed the question at someone else on the panel who would not have answered as Wakefield did. Wakefield had also met with the Dept of Health to express his concern.

The Lancet paper itself did not make the suggestion.

Had the govt offered the single jabs as an alternative I don't think there would have been any sort of media scare (and guess what ds2 and ds3 still wouldn't have been vaccinated).

Had Wakefield been allowed to continue his work, had the children he was treating been allowed to continue receiving treatment then maybe we would know more about autistic enterocolitis than we know now.

The difference tigger, is that there is no credible school of thought in favour of smoking, hypertension or diabetes. They are "bad".

Not accepting certain vaccinations for certain children however is a valid choice backed up by a large body of academic, medical and anecdotal evidence. It is therefore insidious and bad practice for the pushing of vaccinations to be tacked onto smoking cessation/combating heart disease, because it is in no way an equivalent issue. Whatever the OP's dickhead GP may have told her

Anyone interested in the whole MMR fiasco should read this month;s Autism File (the one with 'autism mothers' on the front). Fascinating article written by a barrister of the entire affair.

over 500 million doses of MMR have been given worldwide.How much proof that its safe is needed !!!
I have 5 friends who are GPs and 2 in other bracnches of medicine.Every single one has had their kids vaccinated with the MMR.