to be bl**dy furious that my DD has measles because other parents won't vaccinate?

[elportodelgato]

poor DD is only 11 mo and has horrid measles all over her, full of cold, streaming eyes, diarrhea, very unhappy and sleepy and limp. I am so so for her, but more I am absolutely bloody with idiot parents who won't have the MMR!

The doctor actually told me this morning that the reason it is so prevalent in our area is because of stupid people refusing to vaccinate their children and compromising the immunity of the whole group. So now my LO, who is only 2 months off having the vaccination herself, is really really sick because of other people's stupidity. It's making my blood boil! Do people not realise how dangerous it can be in little babies? And does anyone still seriously believe the so called "research" which claimed a link between MMR and autism? It has been so completely discredited in recent years you would think people would have got over it by now and started vaccinating again

Arrgh!!

leonie, I never said you 'owed' it but if I were you and so sure of my 'research' I wouldn't have a problem sharing

Also if you feel that the MMR is unsafe and are basing your decisions on that would you not want to spread this 'research'....

I was just very interested to see it

Your poor DD. I hope she makes a swift recovery. This very much scares me as there have been measles outbreaks in our area and I would too be furious if she got it (rightly or wrongly so).

I hope she is better soon
xx

novicemama,

I'm sorry to hear that your baby has measles and I hope she makes a swift recovery and does not have any complications.

My week old daughter will be having the MMR as soon as she is old enough. My son had the MMR without any problems and so do millions of other children.

I completely agree with you that parents who refuse the MMR vacination (without strong medical grounds) are irresponsible and ignorant of the risks.

People forget that measles can lead to mengentitis. Brain damage caused by mengentitis can mimic the affects of severe autism. The chances of a non vacinated child developing learning difficulties is probably higher than a vacinated child.

"problems reported are tiny."

Not when they happen to you they're not. Tell a parent of a child who regressed after MMR that their problem is tiny and see what they say. Tell them that they should risk future children doing the same after receiving the MMR.

Each parent weighs up the risks for their child and, naturally, they care for their child more than they care for some anonymous women/children.

My dad managed to get to the age of 17 before catching rubella. Weird considering he is one of 5 and they'd all had it whilst living at home.

YANBU at all. I would be furious if my baby caught this awful disease because some selfish Daily Mail reading idiot refused to vaccinate their child. Unvaccinated chldren should not be accepted in nurseries or schools without a very good reason (and relying on other people vaccinating their kids to protect yours is not a valid reason).

I and my two siblings had measles when young and we were extremely ill for weeks, one of us had pneumonia (at 6 months old)and two were left with heart problems. The worst people are the iodiots who say "measles isn't as bad as its made out to be" because theyhave no memory of just haw bad it is and think there's some kind of governmet conspiracy to cover up a link with autism.

It's just a shame that other people's children have to suffer form their studpidity before they reach the age when they can be protected.

YANBU poor you and her

MMeLindt

Wakefield's research has been described as excellent science which still stands (by Richard Horton- editor of the Lancet under oath at the recent GMC hearing). If the research was so shoddy then it would have been very easy for a further study to refute it. Further studies haven't even tested his hypothesis although they've had many years to do so. "proving" that the MMR is safe for the majority of children is not the same as showing that it hasn't adversely effected a small subgroup of children.

There has been other research in the last few years (completely unrelated to Wakefields) documenting various immune system abnormalities found in autism. Many individuals with autism appear to have a particular problem dealing with viruses. And very recent research is showing that another subgorup of the autism population appears to have a mild mitochondrial dysfunction which may make them susceptible to damage from viruses (wild and vaccine) and indeed the US court has paid out damages in such a case (see Hannah Poling - good article about her written by her mother in this month's Autism File).

Now if you are in a situation where you have watched your child regress following a viral infection you're not going to be quick to rush in and vaccinate your other children and in fact there are plenty of HCP's who would agree with that (have spoken to them). My mother is deaf in one ear from measles, believe me it's a walk in the park compared to severe autism.

There is more than one way to be socially responsible. DS1 caught rubella from a vaccinated child, DS1 didn't spread it to anyone (we stayed in).

YABTU, and dictatorial, and rude, and ignorant of other people's perfectly valid perspectives.

I'm sorry your daughter is ill, but you can't possibly think this issue is as simple as "anyone who didn't accept the MMR is responsible for my child's illness".

If that IS what you think, well then I would have to question YOUR intelligence

there are clear financial reasons for the push for MMR - not least because GP practice receive bonuses if their practice rate are above a ceratin percentage. (this is fact, my SIL is a GP) - don't you think that is strange? If they have to force it like that then clearly public confidence has been lost and they should look elsewhere for alternative strategies.

And to say all vaccination is categorically safe is factually incorrect also - there are different types, live, attenuated etc and they come from different sources / have different modes of stimulating an immune reponse. We would assume / hope most are safe for most people due to the drug testing / licencing procedures but you cannot make a blanket statement like that as there is always the possibility of side effects and combinational effects in some people (all drugs have possible side effects, some severe).

And if they are so convinced that the MMR does not have an unacceptable rate of adverse reactions why havent they funded definitive research to show that? Would save a lot of money in the long run you'd have thought.

Leonie, from your reply can I take it that your dcs have not had any form of vaccination? Correct me if I am wrong, it just appears that way.

It is true that no vaccine can give a 100% guarantee that the patient will not get the disease, but it will drastically cut the chances.

Your dcs are not "typhoid Marys" as you so emotively put it, but they are a possible source of infection for children too young to have had the vaccine due to their lack of immunity.

Your dcs have not caught anything YET but they could at any point in their lives. And then infect a small baby.

What are the sanctimonious attitudes you speak of? No one else has spoken of feeling "justified and righteous" but you.

Please debate this issue in a balanced way. It is after all possibly a matter of life and death.

It is too important an issue to be left to degenerate to personal insults.

And unfortunately it is not good enough to say "each parent can make decisions for their own dcs, it is no-one else's business"

In this case it is everyone's business as the rise in cases of these diseases amongst the general population is a risk to every child in this country.

I think alot of people these days have no idea what life was like when these childhood diseases were rife. Someone said there was nothing wrong with their childs immune system, a terrible disease can still harm them no matter how good their immune system.

Some comments on Stephanie Cave: trusted.md/feed/items/system/2007/02/13/stephanie_cave_philosopher_queen

Richard Halvorsen: www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2151800

Both people clearly making loadsa money out of this stuff. Both with books, Halvorsen has a glossy website to flog his overpriced vaccines. babyjabs.co.uk.

I know a child who regressed following MMR (agreed by his peadiatrician who was with him in HDU - probably not via the Wakefield 'mechanism' though - although who knows) - he is 11 now, non verbal, in nappies. I don't think anyone would describe his problems as tiny

Is it true that in the US children have to be vaccinated before being allowed to join a school?

Richard Halvorsen offers single jabs to his NHS patients for free (and has done for years). I also know people who have seen him who he has advised NOT to vaccinate so I don't think he's just flogging stuff to make money

I had measles I know just what it's like. I have a mum who is deaf from measles I know what's that like. I live with a child with severe autism. I know just what that's like.

lets face it even the NHS vaccine page on the MMR says

admits that

"There are very few children who have a true contraindication to having the MMR vaccine. "

so that does not mean that all children will be ok with the MMR

However it should be said there's nothing I can find out on their website about what the contraindications are - very helpful - not

Also something else that people haven't really taken into account, which I looked at last time a similar thread came up.

If you look at the areas (and no I don't have time to drag up all the facts/figures etc right now I'm supposed to be tidying my house and feeding my DS£ ). The highest rates of outbreaks of the diseases which MMR mostly protects against (don't forget that having the MMR DOESN'T mean that you child will 100% never get those illnesses) were in areas with very high immigration rates - and indeed I seem to recall that I dragged up a document from somewhere or other than showed that many of the "outbreaks" occurred in those groups (and then spread - naturally as these things do).

Many of those won't have been vaccinated - moved to the UK "past" the MMR age, didn't get "flagged up" on the system when they arrived, etc etc.

O rly?

Measles (Rouvax) £95
Rubella - German measles (Rudivax) £95
Mumps (Mumpsvax) £145

Can I just say that not all people who chose not to let their DC have the MMR are irresponsible and ignorant.

Just because somebody refuses the MMR doesn't mean they haven't had their DC vacinated. I didn't let my DC have the MMR but they have had the single measles vaccines and are due to have the other two within the next few months.

I am not 'Ignorant' I do understand the that measles is a serious life threatening illness and my decision was one of the hardest I have ever had to make, believe me there were tears and a lot of heartache

'Is it true that in the US children have to be vaccinated before being allowed to join a school?'

This is largely true, unless they can prove a medical reason why they are not.

And it can apply to fee-paying schools as well as they see fit.

And to public universities.

The year before I entered university, there was a measles outbreak - it was before they twigged that a teen booster was needed.

I had to show proof of having a booster before being allowed to matriculate.